VINTAGE ROD BRACES

[54bullseye]

Okay I have a rookie question. I have a couple reels one a 14/0 Kovalovsky the other a 12/0 Bronson Coxe and I have seen many more in pictures that have the heavy wire style rod braces or harnesses that some how attach to the rods to secure the reels for fighting big fish. My question is how do they attach to the rods ? In all the searching I have done I have never seen pictures of how they actually attach ? Does any one have pictures to show how they work ? I have asked this same question to some other Big Game collectors and they don't know either !! I hope someone out there can help shed some light on this subject to solve the mystery for me and others. Pictures tell the story best.
Thanks John Taylor

[oc1]

Lash them down. Some 36 to 54 thread hard laid twisted linen or cotton will work well. Stabilize and preserve the lashing with anything from Stockholm tar to Kusmi orange shellac.
-steve

[54bullseye]

Steve
 First off thanks for the reply !  Are you speculating on that lash down system or is it fact the wire braces were made to be lashed down ? I can see that it would work and back in those days I am sure the fisher men did what they had to to make things work but with those braces coming on quite a few different brands of reels it would seem to me a more standard system might have been out there maybe some sort of hardware that attached it to the rod that could easily be removed then re attached as needed for cleaning and servicing of the reels ??        John

[oc1]

It was before my time and I have never seen them in action. But, I think that if you take a close look at period-appropriate rods the lashings will fit right in. If there was purpose-built metal hardware it would have survived with the reel. Lashings are just cut off and discarded.

Having those things flopping around loose would drive you nuts and may not provide support when you need it. Put yourself in the anglers seat and it will become clear.
-steve

[Paul M]

I saw this picture and it shows similar hardware in use but the "rest" seems flat and appears to be held in place by a stub mounted on the underside the rod. Yours seems to be for mounting on the top side of the rod. I also see the potential for 2 support brackets, one for the top and one for below- like belt AND suspenders.

https://goo.gl/images/FOZvi6

[Midway Tommy D]

A lot of those pics are of Zane Grey's equipment but at the bottom of the page, this one shows a similar setup on the Kitty Vane.

[54bullseye]

Paul In the picture you posted it looks like the top wire brace is like mine but it has that bottom brace that appears to attach to the under side of the rod ? I haven't seen that set up yet I sure wish pictures were closer up !! I think your on the right track. Thanks !! John

[Paul M]

Here is a different rig that was in the IGFA mini-museum during the 2015 ORCA convention.




Paul M

[Paul M]

https://goo.gl/images/d3uvzJ.... and the lashed-on method

[54bullseye]

Paul this one is he turn buckle style they still use today. The lashed on method is neat I never saw that before !! That reel doesn't have the brace or wire harness like mine it's Lashed right into lugs on the front of the reel !!! It looks like it works to me ! That's a neat old picture. Thanks Paul ! John Taylor

[john elder]

i deleted the post I made above because I realized I was mistaken about the wire having a stop against the reel....I agree that it must be lashed in some fashion to lend support.

[wrong99]

The "lashing" aspect just seems really crude for such a precision instrument. But I've looked in every catalog I have and see no kind of hardware offered for that purpose.
Mark

[54bullseye]

The "lashing" aspect just seems really crude for such a precision instrument. But I've looked in every catalog I have and see no kind of hardware offered for that purpose.
Mark

I agree with Mark you wouldn't think they make a nice brace like that and then expect you to lash it down ???? I absolutely can see lashing would and did work but there has to be another way possibly hardware associated !! John

[wrong99]

Yeah, it just doesn't "fit". You mean to suggest you have a 12/0 Coxe reel that listed for $210.00 in 1940, which is $3600.00 in 2016 money and you're going to "lash" it to a rod with linen line and then seal it with tar? Seriously? I know some of those early big game guys were hard core, but...
Mark

[54bullseye]

Maybe they figured that after you spent all that money for the reel you couldn't afford hardware so they told you " Just lash it on " !!! John

[wrong99]

...or, you just couldn't afford to go fishing?

[Midway Tommy D]

Maybe they figured that after you spent all that money for the reel you couldn't afford hardware so they told you " Just lash it on " !!! John

...or, you just couldn't afford to go fishing?

If you take a close look the one set of brackets squeezes in for easy reel removal after the slotted end nuts are removed. It's hard to tell on the other one, but at worst, pillar removal would allow the reel to be taken off the rod if need be. The guys that could afford to go fishing with those pooches could afford the cost of an extra few minutes to remove the reel from the rod.

[Paul M]

Maybe the Coxe catalog in the ORCA library has the answer as to how and why these braces were used. Or perhaps someone has box papers that came with the large scale Coxe reels of that era.

[wrong99]

Nothing is mentioned in the pre-war Coxe catalogs that I have.
Mark

[m3040c]

Hello John,

Here's an old picture with the wire rod brace in use. I know this is a rare rig, even you may not have this cradle reel.



Arthur may have a special reel seat to be used with this rod mount.

[54bullseye]

First to Tom the Coxe wire brace will squeeze together enough to remove it so I guess your theory of lashing then removing brace from reel would work fine !! On the Kovalovsky the pillars fit into the side plates so you would need to break down reel or cut the lashing !! Like Mark said you wouldn't think they would go through the bother of adding the brace then not having some sort of clamp or hardware that could be released to take reel off ??

To Mike : I have seen that combo you posted in pictures before what a rig !!! I still can't tell from the picture if that one is lashed or if it's a clamp holding brace ? I blew up picture as much as I could but it's blurry. I sure would like to own one like that !
The mystery lives on !! John Taylor

P.S. Mrs. John Manning looked "HOT" in that picture !!! LOL !! Notice Kovalovsky spelling under picture ??

[m3040c]

I still can't tell from the picture if that one is lashed or if it's a clamp holding brace ? I blew up picture as much as I could but it's blurry. I sure would like to own one like that !

I believe it is a double wire clamp going around the rod hooking into the reel wire standoff, It is similar to a old fashioned wire hose clamp. It looks like a screw and nut assembly are tightened to hold everything together, just like on a wire hose clamp.
The picture is in the book, "Fishing the Atlantic" by S. Kip Farrington Jr.

I did not notice the incorrect spelling of Kovalovsky until you brought it to my intention. I always wonder why poepl cannot speel correctly. thot realy boters mi/

[Midway Tommy D]

Wow, sure didn't figure the pillar on the Kov went all the way through with permanent stop ridges. That makes it a real pain in the behind on that one.

[reeltackle]

As for the rod braces John showed in his first group of photos, the curved Coxe brace and the curved Kovalovsky brace, I agree with the lashing theory based on the Zane Grey photos attached. Steve, it appears that Zane Grey used a heavy linen fishing line as you suggested only he used tape to cover the fore-grip and often the braces as well as the lashings. I have owned several of his rods and they have almost all had taped fore-grips which is also evident in his photos if you blow them up. The three pictures below are of Zane Grey with his rods and reels, you gotta figure if they were meant to be attached another way he would have done it. If there were additional costs involved I have to believe that Grey would have sprung for them. The first picture and its closeup shows a Kovalovsky 16/0 Type I Standard Model with a brace like the one on John's reel lashed to the rod with heavy linen. The second and third photos, along with their closeups shows Grey's custom made 16/0 J.A. Coxe reel (L.A.) with a brace and a close up of the lashings. Both braces are lashed to their respective rods with what appears to be heavy linen line.













Here are two photos and their closeups of reels that do not have braces but instead have lashings that go directly to the rod from the harness clips.









Here is an interesting Edward vom Hofe reel with a brace that clearly attaches to something that would be attached to the rod.







The traditional under the rod brace pictured below is for an Edward vom Hofe 16/0 reel. I believe this to be the most common type of brace that I have seen and I imagine one of the earliest and most effective. The other brace in the photo I found with a 12/0 Coxe (L.A.) reel. It attaches to the front harness lugs and the brace's "foot" is somehow attached to the rod, ie. wrapped on, lashed on, taped on, or perhaps, another reel seat is attached to the top of the rod for the foot to go into.



This is a photo of a 16/0 Stevens reel made in Miami with the brace that came with it from the factory.



This is a factory under the rod style brace that came with the first Fin-Nor 15/0 big drum, double handled reels.



This Australian made 16/0 Errol Bullen Atalanta level-wind reel came with its own unique style under the rod brace



The Kovalovsky reels with flat, not curved, rod braces were built to go on special Kovalovsky rod butts like the one pictured below. The braces clipped into the butt in places specially designed for them as demonstrated with this stainless steel 16/0 patent model Kovalovsky rim control reel.







I believe Mrs. Manning's rod was a custom aftermarket contraption built to cradle the reel and adapt a Tycoon rod tip.

[54bullseye]

WOW !!!! From the looks of it everyone was right !! It seems the "lashing system" was by far the most common and inexpensive way of doing it but Mr. Kovalovsky certainly had his own ideas ! In the picture Mike posted with Mrs. Manning and the Kovalovsky reel and rod it appeared it was also fixed down with a clamp of some kind. The Vom Hofe wishbone looking brace is neat and like you said it looks like it might require some sort of clamp but then again you could use twine through the hole and lash it down.
Ok here is one last rookie question. It would seem to me if a big Tuna or Marlin was stripping line off a big reel that you would want it lashed from the rear more so than the front to help keep reel connected to rod ??? To me it seems the rear would take the brunt of the force ?? I know on some newer smaller reels like the Penn 9/0 Senators there are only lugs on the front for braces to connect to so my thoughts must be wrong but it sure seems to me the back would be the stronger connection!
Well Thanks for all the input and pictures it is something I have wondered about for a while !! John Taylor

PS Ed I sure would love to check out your collection some day!! Do you have a MUSEUM WING added onto your house ?? Man you got the stuff.