Pflueger Redifor Riddle

[joe klaus]

First I would like to give a shout out to fellow ORCA member, Dennis Dostal, for seeing a picture of this reel and asking me questions. It made me take a closer look. And obviously a thank you to Bob Miller for one of his original articles entitled "The Riddle of the Redifor" from which I gleaned information which then lead to questions.

Hopefully I'm able to post pictures that illustrate what I'm feebly attempting to describe.

Obviously the reel is one of those that has the Warren Ohio over-stamp on the front, and has the larger style click and drag buttons. Then turn it over and you see an unusually high serial number for a Warren Ohio over-stamp, i.e., 8477.

Then looking back at the front plate, we see that the end cap (or tension cap or oil cup as some call it) is not fluted. Just plain, as would have been the case for one of the earliest known models of Pflueger Redifor with Serial No. below 1200. But on the back plate, the end cap is fluted as we normally see in most Pflueger Redifors.

Then to top it off, this reel has only two serial numbers, and not the customary three. I have 2 other Pflueger Redifors with Serial Numbers below 1200 and both of those do not have patent dates but instead have 2 patent numbers. For those who may be curious, those reels are marked "Patents 841796-881850 Others Pending".

And lastly, if we look very closely, we see that the serial number on this reel which appears to be 8477 was likely over-stamped for some reason. The numbers 84 look different than the numbers 77.

Can anyone explain the mysteries of why we have two different types of end caps (oil cups) on the front plate and back plate, and why we have only two patent dates stamped on the back plate, and why someone very likely went to the trouble of over-stamping the serial number on a reel that has at least one common appearance of a later model reel, i.e., the large size click and brake buttons on the front? Very puzzling to me. Are there other examples of Pflueger Redifors with similar anomalies?

[john elder]

Joe, I have parted ways with my Redifors, so no help with comparisons. However, I would just make the comments that bearing caps get switched/lost all the time, so I wouldn’t put much weight on difference between face plate and back plate caps. Also, to my eye, the two 7’s in the serial number may have been hit a bit lighter but are not much different than the “4” and the number is symmetric on the back plate; ie, I don’t think the 7’s were added later.

J

[Don Champion]

John, As well as I remember the fluted oil cap and the round end cap are not interchangeable. It would mean changing the entire end plate.

[RAM]

The Redifor serial numbers never made sense to me. For that matter, the whole Redifor thing never made sense. Another explanation for your reel: Enterprise NEVER wasted parts. They interchanged anything that would fit to avoid waste, including end plates. German frugality.

When you solve the Redifor Riddle, drop me a note. I am fairly confident Enterprise never owned the Flegal patent, only the rights to same. A very successful model and the anti-backlash concept worked. They would have used it on other models.

When you solve the riddle please let me know! Bad Bob

[joe klaus]

Wow. I just spent about 15 minutes writing another post and for some reason, I clicked submit and it disappeared.

So I will do it again but this time I have the benefit of Bob weighing in.

Don is right. It is not likely that the round oil cap would fit. More importantly, where would you find a round oil cap to make the change (repair). The rounds are as rare as a hen's tooth whereas the fluted oil caps are a dime a dozen. Only logical that a fluted one would have been used.

And while we are talking about change outs, I must mention that it is not simple to change out an entire tail plate on one Pfl Redifor for another. Our good friend, Dave Lehmann, also observes this difficulty, and I should give Dave a mention, because he and I talked about this reel and he offered valuable comments. I'm not saying it's impossible to switch out the Redifor end plates, but saying I've tried it, and it didn't work. And Dave agreed with me.

Regarding the serial number, I'm not sure it's an over-stamp. I'm simply trying to make sense out of seeing such a high serial number on a Pfl Redifor with the Warren Ohio over-stamp. Those reels typically have a serial number that runs between 5000 and 6500. And it's not the 77 that looks funny. It's the first two number (84) that look to be stamped deeper than the 77. A better picture would likely help but not that important in the over-all scheme of things.

The REAL mystery here is why does this reel only have two patent dates stamped on the back plate and not 3?
I have never seen another Redifor with only two patent dates.

I think Dave Lehamnn had a good description of the reel when he said it looked like it came out of the factory "one piece at a time".

[beepr1]

Hi to All, In reading Joe's comments and the others, I took a look at my Redifors, all have the 3 patent dates as Joe mentioned and then I took a look at a Pflueger Worth, it has the same end plate as the Redifor, same bolt pattern and spacing and the same two patent dates as Joe's Warren Redifor, and the first two numbers of the serial number seem to be more heavily stamped than the second two, just food for thought. I agree with Bob as them not wasting parts. Bob what was the March 10,1908 used for and would it have been used on the Pflueger Worth? When did the 1908 patent expire? Don is right about the end caps and tension cups, the whole assembly would have to be changed not impossible but not probable. Logic would dictate that the fluted tension cups should go with the fluted end caps and the smooth tension cups with the smooth end caps. Why have two different style end plates on the same reel? Was this reel sent back for repair at some point? Maybe Dave had the best explanation, these were left over parts at the factory and were assembled just to move them out of stock and for sale. This might possibly explain the high serial number as possibly this model was no longer in production when assembled and sold. Am curious to see what other more knowledgeable members think.

[spadej1]

Not having a Redifor, I’m no real help here but I do recall a similar concersation about Worth’s and Buckeye’s. It was noted that their end plates differed, but I don’t know how Redifor’s fit with either. See link below:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20629&hilit=Pflueger+buckeye+worth

[Ron Mc]

My Redifor, s/n 4289, has matching and interchangeable end caps
It does not have the Warren Ohio stamp on the faceplate
Has 3 patent dates on the backplate
Jan 22, 1907
Mar 10, 1908
Dec 29, 1914



Redifor ads appear in 1919, alongside 1st model Supreme

Conjecture, some were assembled from (any/all) parts shipped from Warren while new parts were fabricated in Akron.
This could be the reason for adding the Warren stamp and even adding a front digit to the s/n.
Maybe somebody has a pre-Pflueger Redifor faceplate to show us?

[joe klaus]

BIG thanks to all that have responded. And Thanks to Ron for showing the pics of his reel. It's a beauty.

I do have Redifor reels in my collection but not certain they provide the answer. Interesting but not conclusive. Oil cups are different. At this moment, I don't have enough time to write enough and post enough pictures to shed sufficient light upon my original quandary. But based upon bits and pieces of information from posts above and from just looking at more reels in my collection, I think I have a partial answer. I will share with all when I get more time.

Bottom line is that the reel "in question" presents numerous issues (a few of which I did not properly emphasize in my posts) that can't be answered with knowledge we currently have. The only possible answer is that given by Bob Miller above. The reel was assembled from spare parts taken from here and there. AND a chance that the end plate is from a Worth. Maybe so and maybe no. I have not researched that enough yet to form a strong opinion. But it's the only logical explanation for the two (and not three) patent dates on the tail plate.

My primary reason for making this post which does not add much value is simply to keep folks from going down a trail that likely does not get you to where you want to go. I don't want folks to waste their time. I will try to post again later. And thanks again for the interest and comments.

[Robin Sayler]

Hey Joe interesting Reel. If the reel is legit and not a frankenreel...my guess would lean towards maybe a repaired reel. I don't believe Pflueger would send out a reel like that for sale. I have a couple reels in my collection that have scratches under the plating where the parts were damaged before they were complete and these were sold clearly stamped "Second". My guess is that it was either repaired or put together from parts at some point.