Meek Reels handle knobs

[Hank Mc]

Am wondering what material was used on Meek reel knobs. Some look like bone and some like ivory, or a plastic type material like Pyrolean. Probably spelled that wrong.

[kyreels]

I believe all the early Kentucky Meeks (including B.C. Milam) were made with ivory or occasionally horn (although I can't find a catalog that shows the horn option). Later BF Meek and Sons had an option for a Pyralin grasp in their catalog. However, the catalog still showed ivory being the standard shipped on most all reels except the Tuna and Tarpon sized reels (those were assumedly hard rubber, but not sure what the options might have been). I have seen early model 33 in black handles, don't know what that was.

Don't know if the Horton Meeks ever switched it up. The tournament handle grasps that are found are mostly not made by Meek (or Milam). They can be anything it seems.

There are certain exceptions as always of course. It might be better to say that 95% of Kentucky Meeks are ivory grasps.

[Hank Mc]

Thanks for the info as I have been wondering, I do have an early #33 that has a black knob, I'll have to check and see what I think it is made of.

[Paul M]

Some material detection tips are discussed here and in the referenced TRN article- viewtopic.php?t=17018

[Don Champion]

Later Meeks & Hortons both had knobs that WD-40 would melt.

[wrong99]

Celluloid or ivoroid maybe? WD-40 might melt those?

[Mike N]

This ad from VL&A for Meek reels indicates ivory “handles” (actually the grasps) were standard but for an extra .50 you could upgrade to “pearl.” Not sure what type of pearl was used.

My gut feeling is that the dark “horn” grasps we see were likely replacements or filled a supply gap when ivory was scarce. The reel shown as “O” in the original ORCA logo was a brass J.L. Sage with a dark buffalo horn grasp.

[kyreels]

That is interesting. I don't believe I have ever seen a Kentucky reel with pearl grasp. Maybe I have handled one, and didn't know what to look for. The article Paul M referenced does not address pearl. I would assume it is pretty luminescent under UV, and it should be obvious.

BTW, I carry black light in my case to every show. It has proven interesting.

[Mike N]

That is interesting. I don't believe I have ever seen a Kentucky reel with pearl grasp. Maybe I have handled one, and didn't know what to look for. The article Paul M referenced does not address pearl. I would assume it is pretty luminescent under UV, and it should be obvious.

BTW, I carry black light in my case to every show. It has proven interesting.

I agree, Matt. Apparently though, from this link of the National Pearl Button Museum, pearl was prevalent prior to the 1950s for use in shirt buttons. I may look for some at the next antiques flea market just to study under a loop.

Muscatine, Iowa, for some reason was the pearl button capital of the world.

http://www.muscatinehistory.org/#sthash.lsPeALNk.dpbs


The button industry had a lot in common with the “reel grasp” industry. This is from Iowa Public Broadcasting:

“John Boepple was a master craftsman in Hamburg, Germany. He was skilled at making buttons from animal horn and hooves, bone and seashells. John had heard about the fresh-water mussels in the Mississippi River. He was convinced there was a fortune to be earned in making buttons from these shells with their pearl-like inside coating.”

I think the term “pearl” in the Meek ad referred to “Mother of pearl.” This is from a jewelry website:

“Mother of pearl is the term used for the iridescent substance that forms the inner layer of the shell of some mollusks. It’s often used to make unique pieces of jewelry, among other uses, that have a boho-chic aesthetic. Because of the close relationship between mother of pearl and pearls, people sometimes confuse the two, though many significant differences exist...”

[Mike N]

Just a thought:

1.We have all seen handmade Kentucky reels with black grasps which we typically describe as “buffalo horn.”

2. As Matt pointed out, we don’t see “horn” grasps listed as an option in any Meek catalogs(correct me if I’m wrong).

3. The VL&A ad above indicates a “pearl” upgrade option for handles/grasps. Pearl obviously meant “mother of pearl” made from shells.

4. There is a natural solid black variety mother of pearl. See below.



Link: https://www.knifehandles.com/mother-of-pearl-types

Since Matt and I have handled a fair number of Kentucky reels and don’t recall ever seeing a white mother of pearl grasp.... is it possible that what we have been calling buffalo horn all these years is really black mother of pearl?

Mike N

[john elder]

You should be able to test one of the early black grasps to see if its bone... i’m betting it is!

[Mike N]

You should be able to test one of the early black grasps to see if its bone... i’m betting it is!

Thanks, Dr. E.

As the person I would ask to repair a grasp on my own reel, I obviously defer, but still ask:

1. Why isn’t “bone” listed in any catalog as a grasp option?
2. Bone material is generally white, not black. Was a dye used?

I may ask a pathologist friend if there is a non-destructive method to test a reel grasp for the presence of animal bone.

Mike N

[john elder]

I misspoke...I should have said "horn". I have material that Brian funai has obtained from a company that I believe is in Texas and the horn is from Africa....that's not to say Meek got it there...i believe varieties of cattle would generate the needed material, but it needs to be pursued. I'll see what brian says if he doesn't see this.

[john elder]

Here is the only example i have, on a Meek & Milam #2. You can see striations... does not look like any synthetic i have encountered. Would be be to get it under a dissecting scope for a closer look:





..and here is one that I made from the bone material mentioned above:

[Mike N]

An enlargement of the wear pattern in the third photo makes me think the material was dyed black:

[kyreels]

This is a BC Milam number 3 with a buffalo handle. I viewed it under UV light, and it did not luminesce excessively or appear to be newer plastic. I believe it to be original. Note that if you compare a plastic to an older ivory, the plastic is much brighter under UV than any older plastic. However, I have not compared buffalo horn to black plastic, that would be interesting to see side-by-side.

I don't see any odd striations or non-organic characteristics in this, but someone else may interpret differently. I don't think this is consistent with what I know about pearl, but I am willing to learn something. I think this is clearly bone.

[john elder]

Mike, the material is black all the way through...much too dense for dye penetration.

[Mike N]

John- I guess there are variations in color naturally. This photo is from a website that sells eyeglass frames made of “pure buffalo horn:”

[RonG]

This Fullivove reel has a pearl-type knob. I've seen it on a couple of his reels. I hadn't seen it on Meek reels. I have seen the buffalo horn knob on J.F. & B.F. Meek, Meek & Milam, B.C. Milam, J.L. Sage and Deally reels. Buffalo horn had to be cheaper than ivory and had better wear characteristics than celluloid. As you know, some reel makers used hard rubber for their knobs.

[Teal]

I think there's a problem differentiating between pearl and abalone -- I believe these terms were interchangeable, despite the fact they are very, very different things. Abalone can be found in black so perhaps that's what the black grasps on some reels.

[Steve]

Nacre is oozed by certain mollusks before it hardens on the insides of the shells. It also forms pearls. The pearl-colored versions are called mother-of-pearl, and abalone are prolific producers. From what I know, black nacre comes from some mollusks down around Tahiti and thereabouts. Doubtful that the 19th-century Kentuckians represented a big market for it. But nacre can be dyed black.

Chemically, the stuff is similar to the little crystals floating through your inner ear. That's why we think everything we hear is a pearl of wisdom.

[Brian F.]

Just to clarify, what John was using is sold as water buffalo horn that comes in 1 inch dia rods. You can usually get them from pocket knife and sometimes from fountain pen material suppliers. A friend who repaired a lot of reels had been using it extensively to repair reel handle knobs.

[Mike N]

Pretty cool discussion by the top experts in the field, but it reminds me how much we still don’t know about early reel making.

Mike N

[Mike N]

Jim S. indicates that the only pearl grasp Meek he remembers selling through Lang’s Auction is this beauty in 2011: