When was the switch away from riveted feet?

[Richard Lodge]

I suspect this is a question that might apply more to early English reels but does anyone have information about when the switch from riveted reel feet (with iron rivets) to a solid foot took place? Most of the reels I have made by James Haywood (and marked Haywood, before it was the H*R stamping) have feet attached with rivets. Later reels marked Haywood H*R have one-piece reel feet. Haywood died in the late 1820s and his reels up until that point where stamped Haywood Maker and most (maybe all?) had riveted feet. At some point after his death things changed and the feet used on H*R reels were one piece, no rivets. Any ideas?

Here's two views of the foot of an early reel:



And two views of a later H*R reel foot:

[Steve]

Richard, 2nd reel: Could that "1-piece cast foot" be a 2-piece soldered foot?

[Richard Lodge]

Yes, that's likely it is, Steve. Thanks for correcting me on that. When was the switch from the more primitive riveted foot to the soldered foot? Thanks for your insight.

[Steve]

Not sure if a soldered foot is less primitive. The first soldered foot I ever noticed is on a ball-handle reel that I'd owned for decades before discovering the soldering. An article on the reel should be in the January Reel News, with which I understand you're familiar. Your Haywood foot, if truly 2-piece, would be only the second I'm aware of.

We should ask our friends across the pond to chime in.

[Richard Lodge]

I have several Haywoods with 2 piece feet (foots? ) similar to this one. I've seen other British reels with a similar construction so I think it might have been the accepted way to put these brass reels together there at some point. I would love to hear from our friends across the pond. And perhaps Paul Manuel, our Canadian colleague, might have some thoughts on this. I know Paul has quite a few very nice brass reels from various markers, known and unknown.

[Paul M]

I have 2 left feet!

[john elder]

... but i digress. Process i used in making a two-piece/one-piece replacement foot:

[40fordflathead]

Wow just wow.

[Steve]

I have 2 left feet!

Paul, if you don't know where you left them, Dr. E can make you replacements.

[Richard Lodge]

Geez, John. Why go to all that trouble when you can just drill two holes and pound a couple rivets through?

[Paul M]

One of the 7 flat-footed multipliers shown has no visible pins (middle right reel in the picture). It is unmarked but likely by Heaton. The one Heaton catalog I have seen circa 1890-1910 illustrates many reels with similar foot construction and no visible pins illustrated.

[Richard Lodge]

Great stable of brass reels, Paul. Here's one for Mr. Vernon, a ball handled brass reel with two rivets holding on the foot. This is a Haywood, but I think it's a very early (but nice) handle replacement.



And some variations to show that sometimes, two rivets just weren't enough. Here are three, five and five-rivet versions.

[Steve]

We shouldn't be surprised that machinists like Conroy started using ball handles on their reels. Ball handles had been used for many years on lathes and other machine tools here and across the pond. An ebay seller mistakenly listed the lathe in the first picture below as a fishing reel because of its ball handles.

[RonG]

Here's an unmarked German silver reel with pinned foot.

[john elder]

Keep in mind that some things we see, such as the very unusual foot on Ron's reel may well be replacements that could have happened any time in the last 100 years or so. I don't believe I've ever seen that style of foot before and seems likely to be a one-off repair, MHO. Using brass pins is convenient, but is not a very good choice for long-term stability.

j

[Steve]

But...from the files:

[RonG]

So John, if you haven't seen a reel feature before, it can't be original?

[Jason]

Here are some reels I have with pinned feet. I believe these are all American and the pinned foot construction was done out of necessity by people who only made a few reels and didn't have access to the many brass foundries in NYC. It would have been more costly and difficult to machine the foot from a large chunk of brass. One is dated 1854 but others I suspect are from the 1860-1870's. Who knows when the english quit this practice since their reels changed very little over the course of 200 years.

Don't worry Ron, I can provide your misfit reel a good home.

[Midway Tommy D]

Brass riveting of brass components would, and should, appear to be the norm, but I'm having some trouble grasping why anyone would use brass rivets on original German or Nickle Silver, etc. construction other than the ease of use in a repair.

[john elder]

that was my point, Tommy. Ron, sorry to imply that I am all-knowing about reel feet...I clearly am not. As Steve shows, there are at least two with a cross-member like that ..matter of fact, some of Jason's reels are like steve's brass reel as well.

BTW, anyone know a good wine to have with crow??

[RonG]

Hey John, Happy New Year and Happy Hunting!

[reelsmith.]

Brass riveting of brass components would, and should, appear to be the norm, but I'm having some trouble grasping why anyone would use brass rivets on original German or Nickle Silver, etc. construction other than the ease of use in a repair.

The use of brass screws to hold the feet on German silver KY reels is pretty standard.



Dean.

[Midway Tommy D]

Screwing & riveting are two completely different methods with totally different end results in mind.

[reelsmith.]

Sure they are different methods, but a screw and a rivet perform the exact same function here. The only difference is one can be removed and the other can't.

All I was getting at was that mixing brass and German silver does not seem unusual to me.

Dean.

[Jason]

Brass and nickel silver are very similar copper alloys. I think it looks aesthetically pleasing in Ron's reel because it shows off how precisely they fit. Neither brass or NS rivets can be considered normal as almost all English reels used steel rivets.