Does anyone know who made an old reel called "The Johns

Karla · Post by **Karla** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:21 pm

Casting Reel". I am not able to find this old reel in any books and i am pretty sure it is not made by johnson.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:50 pm

Karla,

You got cut off, did you mean the "Johnson Casting Reel?" Are there any other markings on it? Level wind or no level wind? Other distinguishing characteristics?

Posting a pic would help a lot.

Cheers,

Dr. Todd

Karla · Post by **Karla** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:25 pm

on the foot of the reel is number etched which is either 08 or 09.

Dale Noll · Post by **Dale Noll** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:07 pm

Karla,
Go the Merv's site (reelman.net) and check out the reel listed under ID HELP. There is a reel marked Abbey/Imbrie where your reel is marked Johnson Casting Reel. What is special is the shape of the Crank. Your crank looks to be the exact same design, which I have only seen on your and Merv's reel.

Also, I have a reel just like Merv's, but a different crank and no jewels. My reel is marked The Pennell. Check the foot of your reel to see if it looks like Merv's. (Are your foot Pillars machined to a smaller dia on the ends -about .175".) If so, you may have the same design is on old old Marhoffs.

Could these reels have been made by Shakespeare or the Marhoff Reel Co as special trade reels. These are the only two Companies that I know made this foot design, but there may be others yet to be found. If made by either of these companies, then probable date would be near 1910.

Dale

Edit Note: Corrected Merv's site to reelman.net. Wed Sept 28.

Karla · Post by **Karla** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:22 pm

are you talking about the space between the foot pillars? Also on the other side of the reel the screw is missing so i do not know if it was jeweled or not.

Reel Geezer · Post by **Reel Geezer** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:43 pm

I know nothing about that Dale's measurement of the pillar machining, but a very similar reel can be found with the same crank shape, the same recessed gear housing, same end caps, same screw placement, same headplate screws, etc. in the 1904 Montague catalog. It was made in both the non-jeweled version (No. RC3) and a jeweled version (No. RCJ3). It would have a 60 stamped on the foot. All these signs point to that reel being made by Montague. Perhaps the milled pillars lead it to USN&T Co., I don't know. However, to take the pillars only as an ID mark to identify the reel as a Shakespeare or Marhoff seems a stretch to me. It looks nothing like any Shakespeare or Marhoff reel that I'm familiar with. It looks like a Montague to me.

I'm sorry, but I haven't looked at Merv's reel because his website takes me too long to load on my dial-up service.

Karla · Post by **Karla** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:02 pm

the catalog you have show the printing of "The Johnson Casting Reel"

SWIM JIG · Post by **SWIM JIG** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:14 pm

cool-thumb USA , Karla, that 9 with a o is actualy a (60) generaly the back plate and foot will be rivitd on , names? heck I got a few boxes of these, the front cover and fram suports will have machine screws some have bearing caps some dont, some have the (jewled eyes ) To get a true determination its going need a tooth count of the drive and drivin gears, that also will give you the ratio ie 3to1-4to1 2&1/2 to one etc. also does your spool have a hole on either end or center where you tie the line on? These things had so many different names its hard to keep track. They are fun and useful reels to fish with. ( Dale , should you ever get this far North, plan on a few days, I will set you out a table and you can reseach to you get (bored of these) reels, I will furnish you with mesuring tools (post stone age) a scale to weigh with, and take all the pics you want! Then you can look at some truly old tackle and sporting goods mfg books, and cataloges, The copier is easy to use, I will furnish you tools to take them apart(please put them back together) and I will furnish you with coffee! Dont jump when the air comprssor kicks in ha ha. Let me know a few weeks in advance so I can group them by boxes! Phil you wanna do some research? same offer to you! Don has seen only a fraction of them Harvy decided he would do it in a future time ha ha > ( on the plus side, I think these are cute, show progress in mfg ideas and had some imagination! Your Ohio Conection On Lake ERIE Col. M. lorens aka SWIM JIG

Karla · Post by **Karla** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:53 pm

for sure of what you mean by drive are you talking about worm gear or inside drive.

Karla · Post by **Karla** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:01 pm

Imbrie reel is is looking for more info on looks exactly like this one. I quess the reel i have was made some reel manufacturer who made these for different companies, it would be nice to know what years these reels were possibly made.

SWIM JIG · Post by **SWIM JIG** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:12 pm

cool-thumb USA Karla, count the teeth on the pinon gear, thats the gear on the line spool. Now count the teeth on the driving gear , the one the handle turns, lets keep it simple (pinion gear with 9 teeth, and driving or handle gear 27 teeth , devide 9 into 27 = 3 or three to one,) Of corse the handle or crank can do some changing and make it seem as if grater or less ratio! SOOOO- you do at that point mark the spool and line up the handle , turn the handle and count the times the spool turns before the handle comes back to its starting point! A longer handle will efect the ratio , a smaller diamitor handle will also change the ratio! However the true ratio is done by the gear teeth. your ohio Conection On lake Erie Col. M. Lorens aka SWIM JIG

Jim Schottenham · Post by **Jim Schottenham** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:21 pm

Karla, I think the Reel Geezer has correctly ID'd your reel as Montague made. I have a marked "Knoxall" reel that is an RC3 reel that Phil ID'd from his 1904 catalog:

I the crank, end caps, screw placement, handle, grasp and every other part is a dead ringer for Merv's reel (OK, maybe not a dead ringer, his looks to be an RCJ3 with jeweled caps), which I also feel is a Montague, which is just like yours, with the same 60 yard mark and same foot pillars.
Jim S

Dale Noll · Post by **Dale Noll** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:28 pm

Karla: Most of the time, the foot pillars do not have a step from side to side. These are generally the same diameter. However, if you look at your reel and place your finger on top the pillars, you will have a small sharp step just off center of the foot. The center part of the pillar is the thickest ( largest diameter). The edges of the pillar are just a little smaller diameter. Hope that explains what I meant.

Milt: I counted the gear teeth in my reel. The pinion is 12 and the crank gear is 40. So that gives 3-1/3. First time I have ever counted. Is that a standard retreive? (Note: My reel is an 80 yd instead of 60 with spool at 1-1/2" dia.)

Jim: Thanks for photo. Is the RC3 ID marked on the foot? Also, what would you trade for that Knoxville reel? My home is only 20 mile from Knoxville.

Phil: Thanks for the info. Do you know what years that Montague made reels? I don't have any Montague Cataloges, and see only two in Library -for 1927, and 1928. I have a coulple hundred that I call Montague just because of the foot design, so don't have info or design specifics on the higher quality reels.

Thanks for any help.

Dale.

Karla · Post by **Karla** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:46 pm

and i will check it out.

Reel Geezer · Post by **Reel Geezer** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:46 am

Dale: Montague started in the early 1880, making rods. They bought Chubb in 1891. It is possible they started making reels at that point. They purchased the USN&T factory in Brooklyn in May 1899 and got heavy into reel manufacturing. This factory had been the home to Conroy, Bissett & Malleson and many fine reels had been made there. USN&T owned the patent for the Moog foot that ID's many of their reels. They also owned the Climax TM and used it on most of their inexpensive reels with Moog feet (foots?). They were also making Kosmic reels. Montague continue making most of the USN&T reels. Montague moved their manufacturing facility to another factory in Brooklyn in the 1910-15 period? They continued production there until 1927 when reel production was moved to their home factory in Montague Mass. In 1934 the company was purchased by Ocean City Mfg. Co.

Montague combined parts on order and made just about anything anyone wanted. Their reels went from the least expensive up to the Kosmic reels everyone wants to quality German silver Kentucky style reels, to terrific salt water models. A great deal more research is needed into this major manufacturer of fishing reels. Anyone wanting to embark upon the research into this company should start with ORCA members Jim Garrett and Skip Brooks, and photograph their collection.

Personally, I know very little about 1800s reels, other than Meisselbach, but identifying most (but certainly not all) 20th century reels is not complex. You don't have to count teeth, measure pillar diameter, etc. They have easily recognizable features. The reels Shakespeare made for Sears or Wards look like Shakespeare reels, so do Bronsons, Ocean City, Coxe, etc., etc.

Rubber Reel Lady · Post by **Rubber Reel Lady** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:04 am

Karla, Your messages would be much easier to read if you didn't start your first sentence in the "subject" line. The small white box at the top of the page is for the subject. The entire message should be typed in the larger white box. This will print the entire message in one place without cutting off words or causing the message to start in the middle of a sentence.

reels4me,member · Post by **reels4me,member** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:12 am

I would bet it was made by Montague as others have said. To me the ID
giveaway is the 'style' of lettering on the name. Montague used this style
on ALL their reels. Including Pennels, etc.

Reel Geezer · Post by **Reel Geezer** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:51 pm

Jack: Sorry, but I just looked through a box of Montagues. There are Montague reels that don't use that font, including Pennell. Try: Crescent Casting, Pacific Surf Casting, Catalina, and probably many more.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:57 pm

Well i would like to thank everybody for their help on this reel. I have another they may possibly need id but i need to thumb through some books first.

Karla

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:06 pm

Karla, It is definitely a Montague. I have a Knoxall the same as Jim's and also one named The Royal. Both are like your reel.
Don Champion

Does anyone know who made an old reel called "The Johns

Does anyone know who made an old reel called "The Johns

Johnson?

It is free spool, says "The Johnson Casting Reel"

Well i am not sure what you mean by foot pillars?

I do not have a montague catalog to look at this but does it

its a Montaque!!

Line tie hole is at the end of spool center, i have no idea

I just went to merv's site and Dale is right the abbey &

gear ratios,

Karla.........

okay thanks now i understand what you mean

Reply format.

'Johns' reel