Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

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kevinhaney1
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Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

Post by kevinhaney1 »

I posted the following on the Classicflyrod forum but have yet to receive a satisfactory answer, so I thought I'd try here:

A lot of classic American pre-WW2 fly reels are marked 40 yards, 68, 80, 100 yards etc. What does this measurement mean and what standard and what kind of line was used to measure it? They obviously don't mean yards of regular fly line, which is far too bulky as it takes a reel at least marked 80 to hold 30 yards of modern, medium weight fly line, or even silk line. I've always wondered and I'm betting someone out there knows.

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klonder
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

Post by klonder »

"The numbers on the reel foot usually indicated the size - either the number of yards of a specified line the reel would hold, or in the case of the vom Hofe, the size of the reel." per Phil White. I would think the "specified" line could be gotten from catalogues descriptions.
In all cases, silk line would be the focus. No modern lines before WWII.
I thought this was pretty good basic answer.
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

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Well, since I don't have any catalogs, I still don't know what the "specified line" is which, after all, is the question...
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

Post by wrong99 »

What kind of reel are you talking about? Different manufacturers of different eras used different line specs in many cases.
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

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For the sake of discussion, let's say Montague hard rubber fly reels, marked 80 and 100.
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

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You can get many catalogues here for free.
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

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Yes, and none of the ones I've seen have any indication what the yardage numbers refer to...
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

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Just tryin to be helpful.
Nevermind
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

Post by wrong99 »

kevinhaney1 wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:12 pm Yes, and none of the ones I've seen have any indication what the yardage numbers refer to...
The yardage numbers mean the reel holds a certain amount of a certain kind of line. Montague catalogs don't specify the kind of line. Someone here will know. Just hang tight.
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

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kevinhaney1 wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:28 pm A lot of classic American pre-WW2 fly reels are marked 40 yards, 68, 80, 100 yards etc. What does this measurement mean and what standard and what kind of line was used to measure it? They obviously don't mean yards of regular fly line, which is far too bulky as it takes a reel at least marked 80 to hold 30 yards of modern, medium weight fly line, or even silk line. I've always wondered and I'm betting someone out there knows.

Kevin
You are correct, those yardage markings have nothing to do with modern lines as they pre-date them. The "standard" in those days were silk lines ...which weren't very "standard".

As an example ...

Early E. vom Hofe catalogs list fly lines of many different sizes. Some were offered in a choice of 30, 40 or 50 yards, and others only came in a length of 50 yards.

The same catalogs list reels as capable of holding 25, 40, 60, 80, 100 and 150 yards of fly line. From this we can assume some lines were cut short to fit reels and others had some amount of "backing" added.

It is worth noting that there was little standardization of line sizes at the time. While there was a fair amount of standardization in weight, not so much with thickness, which is the nature of silk and naturally has an affect on reel capacity.

The size of the line a reel would hold was not specified back then (as far as I know). I think its safe to say the smaller reels were meant for smaller lines and larger reels for larger lines and it was left to anglers and/or tackle shops to match the appropriate line with the appropriate reel. I also think its safe to say that this idea of "small, medium and large" (line and reel) was good enough to set folks in the right direction.

It wasn't until the advent of modern lines, with far more standardized sizes, that reel makers began routinely specifying the capacity of their reels in terms of yardage held of a particular size, or range of sizes.

I have no proof of some of this ...but it makes sense to me. Sometimes that's all we get to go on.

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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

Post by Ron Mc »

Here's Pflueger's explanation from the period involved.
Image

Capacity on freshwater reels is size G braid. This was normal bass line (and happens to be fly line for Fairy Catskill)

Capacity on saltwater reels is size 13 cuttyhunk (normal squidding line)

If you want to go back farther
https://books.google.com/books?id=gsoRA ... &q&f=false
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

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That all makes sense, as a reel might be able to hold the marked yardage of 3wt silk line. Interesting that fly reels were measured using what was essentially baitcasting line...
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

Post by klonder »

Thanks Ron. I knew I saw that somewhere.
I don't think there was much of a distinction between fly and casting back then as I believe most if not all were level lines. Thinner dia., good in the wind and most importantly, less splash.
No expert here, just adding thoughts.
Be interesting to know/search for the approx appearance date of tapered silk lines.
Realy interesting thread this:
viewtopic.php?p=65387#p65387
Last edited by klonder on Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

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klonder wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:12 am Be interesting to know/search for the approx appearance date of tapered silk lines.
Courtesy of Ron Gast - https://luresnreels.com/1896evh.pdf

See page 46 of the 1896 EVH catalog for tapered fly lines. Note that there are a bunch of blank pages to scroll through before the catalog appears.

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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

Post by klonder »

Thanks Dean. I happen to have a hard copy of that one. Prob. where I first saw capacity related to line size in both alpha and No. designations.
My level line speculation is kaput! I'm surprised at the plethora of lines available in 1896, leading me to think that tapered silk lines were available even earlier.
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

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kevinhaney1 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:05 am That all makes sense, as a reel might be able to hold the marked yardage of 3wt silk line. Interesting that fly reels were measured using what was essentially baitcasting line...
"Fly reel" was less of a protocol in those days than it was simply a single action reel, vs. a multiplier.
The people who had rods usually had one, and used it for all their fishing.
If you lived near trout, it was probably a fly rod.
But that one rod was used for mooching and trolling, as well.
Image

While tapered lines were made, fly lines were simply off-the-shelf braid, floating lines were waxed or varnished by the owner.
Like the same reel and rod, one would use the same line for bait.
Hemingway never fished a dry fly, but was always swinging wet flies on soggy silk.

Fishing in general belonged to the wealthy before WWI, to the professional class between the wars, and wasn't blue collar until after WWII. First requirement of leisure activity is having leisure time and disposable income.
If you read 19th century outdoor magazines, fishing articles are next to yachting articles, and many of the fishing articles were written 1st person about fishing with The President.

In Henshall's book that I linked above, 1881, p 296, he gives credit for DT fly line as a commercial commodity to Hall & Sons.
Otherwise, lines with tip taper for fly fishing were common. There's also a good chapter on silk gut leader.
Last edited by Ron Mc on Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:14 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

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By the mid-19th century, lines were being made with hair, Indian grass, silkworm gut, silk, hog's bristles, linen, flax, and/or whatever. And tapered lines were ancient history by then. Here's a DIY method of how to make a tapered line of hair (Brookes Art of Angling, 1766 edition):

Using these instructions, an angler of modest intelligence would have been able to figure out how to make a double-taper line.
And some tapered lines offered by Charles Wright, London, 1862:

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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

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Idea: Not even considering “Yardage”, if you plan to use a very small fly reel to fish-examples 60yd Pflueger Hawkeye or Delite, they will simply not hold a full length of any size fly line. So I cut a 4 weight double taper line in half for a “60 yard” Delite that goes with a 6’ bamboo rod and then-Ta Da! It not only fit , but you could also use a bit of backing (which you will never need, but it helps fill the spool). As a bonus, I then had TWO expensive fly lines. Really, how often fishing for trout do you need more than 30 feet of fly line? Just rambling, but all seriousness aside, this really works.

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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

Post by Ron Mc »

Bad Bob, you're always invited to contribute.
not to offend or contradict, but my 60-yd GW holds a modern WF3F with a little more than a base wrap of backing.
Image
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The 2-1/2" Young Thistle holds a modern DT3 (believe this is an Airflo Japan Special Taper DT3F)
Image
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

Post by RAM »

Yo Ron-Never owned smaller than a 4 weight. Good to know a 3 would fit if I had a 3 weight rod. Don’t know much about tapers but the DT I have sure casts nice. I use WFs for bass bugs. No rules, just make fit with what works and be happy fishin’.
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Re: Fly reel yardage capacity numbers

Post by Ron Mc »

Two 3 weights including the one above from 1915
My only 4-wt is a Thomas Light Special.
Full house in 8-1/2' 5-wt, though, perfect tailwater rod.
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6-wt for windy days
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