Unusual Shakespeare markings

[Eric J]

I’ve had this reel for a long long time and never noticed the B9 stampings on the foot of this Marhoff. Does anyone know what B9 refers to?
I’ve seen the R stampings that indicate the reel was returned for repair, but I’ve never seen B9 before.

[kyreels]

It appears benign.

[john elder]

But it sure did metastasize! Jeez, wonder if B9 is stamped all over the innards as well?!

[Eric J]

A little back-story is in order here I guess.
I’ve been photographing and cataloging the tackle that belonged to Wm. Shakespeare Jr. so that when I pass on my survivors will know what is what.
The B9 Marhoff was apparently an experimental reel with a change in the gear bridging (B?) as seen below:

I’m starting to see a pattern now with his other reels. His Triumph HC has a small K stamped on the foot, his Superior Kalamazoo HD has an O, and his Tournament HE has a G.
It looks like he may have done some of his own field testing. I haven’t found any marks like those on his fly reels, even though one automatic is obviously experimental.
Samples were probably sent to fishing pros for field testing, and if O was the highest letter that would be 15 reels. I know from documentation that experimental Wonderods were sent to pros around the country.
Does anyone else have an old Shakespeare with letters stamped on the foot, mostly in the center of the rivet? I still believe the R stamp is for REPAIR since I’ve seen it several times on the level-wind modified reels.

[Eric J]

Holy Smokes! I did an Ebay search of various old Shakespeare reels and looked at the bottom of the foot. Most were just plain ordinary marked reels. But there were two Marhoff 1926 models with the B9 stamp on the rivet. These were not the ordinary 1926 models, these had a wedding cake shaped slider click button (Marhoff 1926 and prior had the rim wheel clicker) and unusual (to my eyes) stampings on the head plate with SHAKESPEARE in an arch and Marhoff Level Winding below, instead of the usual arched MARHOFF'S PATENT.

The standard 1926 Marhoff also has nice clear MADE IN USA and PATENTED markings on the foot, but all of the "wedding cake" 1926 B9's I've found (5) show parts of the letters broken in the same spots indicating that it was an old well worn die stamp was being used. A collector friend has a 1931 Marhoff with C1 stamped on the rivet, and a 1932 Marhoff with C2 stamped on the rivet.....which leads to my new theory:
These reels precede the alphabetic date code. I think B=2 (second letter of the alphabet) and C=3, so B9 is 1929 and C1 is 1931, C2= 1932.
The B9 reels are 1926 models made in 1929, and are stamped B9 because of all the changes to the 1926 model that would require different parts for servicing.
Please let me know if you have a 1926 with B9 (or other) stamping.

[Eric J]

I found a Marhoff Model 31 in my collection that has the C1 stamp on the foot rivet. That makes two 31’s with the same C1 markings, and so I think I’ve discovered yet another Shakespeare reel date code to add to the others.
If the 1926 Marhoff was in production for 3+ years, it is reasonable to think that Shakespeare anticipated that the 31 might also be produced for several years, but needed a way to differentiate between changes within the production run.


Please let me know if you have a 31 with the C1 or some other stamping.

[colby sorrells]

Eric,
I have a 1744 Model 31 stamped with C4 on the rivet. Hope this helps somehow. Colby

[Eric J]

Thanks Colby, that will be a big help!
Maybe your 31 was actually built in 34. It might be a Great Depression era sort of thing.
I know I’ve never seen a 31 Tournament before.
As long as the stamped numbers are greater than or equal to the model date I may be right.

[colby sorrells]

Eric,
Just to make sure, you are aware of the Arthur A. Agentis Shakespeare book? Great resource for the serious Shakespeare collector but hard to find.
Keepin' It Fun.
Colby

[Eric J]

Colby- Do you know if the Agentis article mentions the stampings on the rivets?
Google searches don’t show anything for Arthur Agentis, so I probably won’t find a copy of his information.

[colby sorrells]

Eric,
Agentis book is a very complete listing of Shakespeare reels made through a particular date that I can't remember at the moment. Agentis was a long time Shakespeare employee and he put a book together of all of the different Shakespeare reels by model and years produced. It is a thick book, basically a very big table. It shows the different reel models and notes the years each was produced. No clue if it shows anything about the rivets being stamped. The list ORCA has was taken from the Agentis book but there are some differences. I'll be in touch. CS

[colby sorrells]

Three more for you Eric.

Standard Professional 1753 Model 31 C4 on rivet on foot
Surf Tournament 1756 Model 32 C1 on rivet on foot
Surf Tournament 1756 Model HC C on rivet on foot

What do you think?

Keepin' It Fun!

Colby

[Eric J]

Thanks Colby!
I’d like it better if the 32 was a C2, but it is what it is. Perhaps the 32 was unchanged since the release of the 31 model and therefore stamped C1.
It’s clear that this whole date issue was a big mess for Shakespeare. They were probably getting pushback from retailers who were trying to sell 1926 models for full price in 1927, 1928, and 1929.
The alphabet code fixed that. But in between, they were trying to come up with a system that worked.
I’ve found lots of examples of later reels with just a single alphabetic character, but that must have meant something completely different and doesn’t follow the two-letter alphabet code (one has a O stamped on the rivet, but the alphabet code doesn’t include I or O.)
I’m happy as a pig in mud to have another code to break!

[Paul Roberts]

I have two black 1964 Marhoff's:
-Model 26 with no extra stamps.
-Model HJ ('32) with a C4 stamp on a rivet.

[Eric J]

Paul-
That’s great information! Your Model 26 must be an early 26 because the die stamp isn’t broken yet, and your HJ could have been made in 1934 if my theory is right.

[Eric J]

BTW those are two fine looking Marhoff’s Paul!
Super condition on a reel almost 100 years old!

[Paul Roberts]

Hi, Eric. Glad to add to your observations. What is your reference to the “unbroken die stamp”?

I spent a bit time looking for one that might be fishable. The 26 casts ok but is a bit noisy and attempts to quiet it haven’t panned out so far. The HJ I picked up recently and have yet to open it up, so I’m not sure how it’ll turn out. Right now it’s dry as a 100yr old bone. Can’t wait to get to it.

[Eric J]

Hi Paul-
The die stampings that I’m referring to on the 1926’s is this typical example of an early stamped reel:

Compared to the later, worn-out dies like these B9 (1929) reels have:



You can see that when the die was newer, the markings are sharp and clear. As the die got used, the sharpness goes away meaning the apexes of the letters were rounded off and more pressure had to be used to make the impression. The result of that is the broken 2 and two of the A’s on both examples.
If you’ve ever looked at old Fox Sterlingworth shotguns, they kept using the same old broken die until the word Sterlingworth is practically unreadable. Dies were expensive to make, and they got used hard.
That is probably why the Walter Marhoff made Marhoffs were so weakly struck. Walter couldn’t afford to risk damaging his die, and later Shakespeare struck the Marhoff Reel Company reel
harder because they knew they didn’t need it much longer and would soon switch to the Shakespeare Marhoff’s Patent die.

[Paul Roberts]

Thanks for the explanation and history. Nifty.

[Paul Roberts]

Great to see Eric Jeska’s article in the November 2022 issue of Reel News. Not only highlighting some excellent sleuthing -a theory with good amount of observational evidence behind it- but an interesting read as well. I’m happy to have been able to contribute in a small way. We’ll done Eric!

[Eric J]

Thanks Paul! Your info was s big help in the decoding. My list now has over hundred rivet coded Shakespeares in it and still only one is from 1944.
I’ve been corresponding with Alan Baracco since the article, and he has some rivet-marked Shakespeare’s also. He also looked at the rivets on his Shakespeare-made South Bends, and about 25% of them are also rivet coded. We are now trying to determine if Shakespeare used the same date code on those reels or if there was a different code for them.
A few years before Henry Shakespeare died, I chatted with him about some of the Shakespeare Company history, and at one point he asked “You know the Shakespeare code right? It’s BLACKHORSE. We needed a word with ten different letters in it.”
Well I wasn’t about to tell Henry he was wrong, but also didn’t ask him to expound on that. I just said “Oh.” And that’s too bad, because I’m sure there is something to his statement. I just can’t figure it out.

[Alan Baracco]

Eric, (and now ALL members of the "Shakespeare/South Bend rivet code Consortium"),

I missed the original thread earlier in the year, but Eric's excellent article in REEL NEWS sent me scurrying to my Shakespeare baitcaster collection, of which there are 2 reels, both handed down to me by my father. The Standard Professional Free Spool 1755 Model HJ has a rivet code of "F".

Well, from the frying pan to the fire, I thought that if Shakespeares had codes, maybe South Bends did as well (since Shakespeare made them), the second reel I looked at had a single numeric code. Of the 90+ SB's I have 15 have a clear number code, usually on the rivet on the front foot pillar. I have no idea what the answer is, but the chase would be fun.

BTW, for the codes on my South Bends, only one of them has a letter in the word "BLACKHORSE".

Alan

[Paul Roberts]

The plot thickens. As things do over time. I have a (very) few SB’s to check.

[mark bumgarner]

late to the scene as usual but thought I would let you know I do have a model 32 with C2 stamped on rivet.

[Eric J]

Never too late! Thanks Mark- that helps confirm that C2=1932 and there must have been a design change in late 1932 that was different from the early Model 32’s and needed to be distinguished with the rivet stamp. Thanks for sharing!