Theodore Noel Followup

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leland99
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Theodore Noel Followup

Post by leland99 »

In anticipation of the upcoming ORCA National in Frankfort, and as a follow-up to my article in July 2021 of The Reel News, I wanted to share some additional photos of the subject brass click reel with the Theodre Noel KY marking, including some new interior views.

Exterior views of the reel:






Tailplate interior and clicker parts (note the double line marks and 3 possible ping marks):





Spool side of clicker plate and spool flange:



Interior of headplate and spool flange (double line marks and ping marks):




Handle with screw and tailplate screws (only the long screw appears original):



Hope you enjoyed the tour inside of this reel.
Bryce Tawney
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Packing these reels into my nest hole: Talbot, Milam, Meek, Horton, Heddon, Wm Shakespeare Jr, and small diameter skeleton fly reels!
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

Post by Teal »

Thanks for sharing! Awesome reel.

-- Dr. Todd
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

Post by bettybarr »

Bryce, please bring your reel to Frankfort. It will be great to check it out.
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kyreels
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

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I am interested in the gear ratio. Please count the number of gear teeth on the crank and spindle gear. Or maybe we can do that at the National. I would like to compare it to some of the JF and BF of the time.
Matt Wickham
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leland99
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

Post by leland99 »

I am interested in the gear ratio. Please count the number of gear teeth on the crank and spindle gear. Or maybe we can do that at the National. I would like to compare it to some of the JF and BF of the time.
Hi Matt, this is a single-action reel. Near the end of the photos is the HP interior and the spool flange, showing the reel handle shaft connected directly to the spool. The only gear is the click gear.

Bryce
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Mike N
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

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For those who do not collect Kentucky reels, the name Theodore Noel may be unfamiliar. In a later version of his Book of the Black Bass (originally published in 1881) Dr. James Henshall wrote a chapter titled "Evolution of the 'Kentucky Reel.'' "

Noel is mentioned twice at p.292 of the article (which Ron also has up on his website, linked at https://luresnreels.com/henshallarticle1.pdf).

"It seems that about the time that Jonathan F. Meek made his first reel in 1833, or soon after, at least one reel was made by Theodore Noel, also a watchmaker."

And

"Mr. Benjamin C. Milam, whose name is almost synonymous with the 'Kentucky reel," went to Frankfort, Ky., in 1835 and worked for awhile with Beverly Noel, a watchmaker, (and) a brother to Theodore Noel, previously mentioned."

I have no explanation as to why Noel's first name is spelled incorrectly by the engraver of the reel, but the engraving appears to me to be early and I would love to match its signature style with other engraved reels from Kentucky. It's a rare and interesting reel worthy of further study.

Mike
Last edited by Mike N on Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kyreels
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

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Hi Matt, this is a single-action reel. Near the end of the photos is the HP interior and the spool flange, showing the reel handle shaft connected directly to the spool. The only gear is the click gear.
OK, makes more sense now. I thought that somehow the pictured gear had more function than the click and there was a missing view. I do think the single action is the most important thing to note for this reel. It begs the question for me as to whether it was used for fly fishing rather than casting.
Matt Wickham
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

Post by Mike N »

I love the old drawings and photos that show the “click” made with the quill of a feather. I’ll see if I can find a photo.
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

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Mike N wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:16 pm I love the old drawings and photos that show the “click” made with the quill of a feather. I’ll see if I can find a photo.
With the help of Steve Vernon, I was able to find the photo I was looking for at page 30 of “Fishing Reel Makers of Kentucky” by Vernon and Stewart. Not sure of the relevancy to the reel under discussion here, but the idea that very early Kentucky reel makers once used the quills of large birds for the click is just very interesting to me.
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kyreels
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

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I was reading our library item today on the topic of the Henshall Letter and reply to B.C. Milam in March of 1894. Milam writes:
The first Multiplying(reel)that I have any knowledge of having been Made in Kentucky was made by a man by the name of Droctore? Noel a younger brother of the man I first went to learn my trade with which was in 1835.
It is interesting that this real is a single action reel. Wonder if Noel made a multiplier.
Matt Wickham
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Mike N
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

Post by Mike N »

Theodre v. Droctore.

Great find, Matt.

My gut is that the reel is British, but may have been owned by a member of the Noel family. The other alternative is that the immigrant Noel made reels like they made them at the time back in England. A family lineage of where the Noel family originated and emigrated from may help solve the mystery.
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kyreels
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

Post by kyreels »

My gut is that the reel is British,
My gut is that the reel was possibly made in Kentucky and is not British, after reviewing information on the Noel brothers in Bryce's article in the July 2021 Reel News. Of course the opposite is possible and I am bucking other experts as quoted in the article. My point in quoting B.C. Milam was that he specifically said that the reel mad by the brother (Theodore) of Dr. Noel was multiplying, which was not stated in the other sources. The letter from B.C. Milam was earlier than the deposition of 1900. Since this is the only known specimen of a Noel Reel, we have limited information.

When I first read Bryce's article, I missed the fact that this reel was not multiplier reel. I think it is certainly possible that this is one of the early "crude" reels referenced by B.C. Milam, and maybe Noel made other multipliers, some of which may be uncovered in the future.

Anyway, we can further examine it at the National, and consume a bourbon over it.
Matt Wickham
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

Post by Stef Duma »

It has many British attributes but wooden handles are not one of them.

Bone Ivory or horn were the main ones with wood coming later circa 1890- 1930.
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Mike N
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

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Stef Duma wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:03 pm It has many British attributes but wooden handles are not one of them.

Bone Ivory or horn were the main ones with wood coming later circa 1890- 1930.
That’s a very interesting observation, Stef. Although I don’t ever recall owning a Kentucky reel with a wooden grasp (the Meeks seemed to favor ivory and J..L Sage typically used black horn) Ron G. does have an early Snyder reel shown on his website with what appears to be a wooden grasp. Of course, this all begs the question as to whether any wooden grasp on an early reel is simply a later replacement for an original ivory grasp that shrunk and cracked.
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

Post by Mike N »

One last thought: the very early (ca.pre-1835) Kentucky reel grasps seemed to show a preference for the more “bulbous” profile, so perhaps a wooden, slimmer grasp is simply a later replacement on an early reel.
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Jim Schottenham
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

Post by Jim Schottenham »

Guys, before you get too deep in the grasp discussion, understand this reel was sold in an auction in 2017 minus the grasp, in a group that included two other reels.
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leland99
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

Post by leland99 »

before you get too deep in the grasp discussion, understand this reel was sold in an auction in 2017 minus the grasp, in a group that included two other reels.
Jim, thanks for sharing that information. Another layer peeled back.

Bryce
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Re: Theodore Noel Followup

Post by Mike N »

Jim Schottenham wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:40 pm Guys, before you get too deep in the grasp discussion, understand this reel was sold in an auction in 2017 minus the grasp, in a group that included two other reels.
I did find the auction Jim mentioned on TacklFind. As well, my search found this “T.Noel” reel that sold at Lang’s in 2010 for just over $5000. It appears to be a non-multipler, as well.



Mike N.
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