abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

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Jay Lucas
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abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Jay Lucas »

First, I had been cleaning and lubricating my 22 5500, an 5600 reels I have somehow accumulated by buying new whenever they started making noise. Slowly getting the hang of it, but have had a terrible time with the little E clip washer they decided to punish the clumsy with, when they designed the reel. When my 4th one popped off into outer space(actually I have popped off six but recovered 2) I decided it was time to replace them. Easily found the replacements and they are reasonably priced for a small part. However, since I already needed 4 and probably more in the future, I looked on the internet and found Clark's 300 piece, 10 size steel E clips delivered the next day for $12. Now I have at least 20, maybe more, of the correct size E clip at about 50 cents per each. Very handy. I cannot imagine I will ever have a use for the other 9 sizes of E clips involved and will probably gift it to my brother, unless you have a need...
Second I have in my group an ultracast 5500c with a 990604 on the foot, and this one reel amongst many has a screw that goes into the reel post instead of the E clip that all the rest have and also an odd spring piece as part of the bail mechanism, and I cannot get the bugger back together or figure how the spring sets when I need to re-assemble. Any tips? And why did Abu put the screw in the top of the post on this one and did they stay with that or go back to the clip? It is the only one out of 7 that has that.
Third, I started to disassemble a Black Max and found a group of brass gears I wasn't expecting and backed out before I found out new limits to my mechanical ability. Was the Max the high grade reel at the time, and did it pre date the Morrum? Still runs good, and curious if it has higher value or just the usual $40-60 they seem to sell for? I believe I didn't used that one very much as it had a slower rate of retrieve, and not even sure where I got it, as I tended to pick reels up at yard sales over the years if they appeared to be in good running order.
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kyreels
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by kyreels »

The ORCA Members Area Library has 25 different Abu Garcia repair manuals and 100's of schematics. But not sure how to narrow down the year from your descriptions. There were too many variations and files to nail one. Here is a Black Max schematic, but it is labeled 01 01, which seems it was a variation in 2001. The previous variation appears to be a 1992 model. Maybe a more experienced Abu member can help.
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Ron Mc
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Ron Mc »

Up front, if you don't have an Ott magnifier and lamp, that's the first thing you need.
Also, break up your thoughts into paragraphs so we don't need the Ott magnifier to find them.
Your timing was good, I happened to have my 1500C on the bench, just finished converting it to 1500CIAR.

I have a micro screwdriver that pries off E-clips with a turn. It's just the right size to fit in the gap between the E and the post.
When it's in the slot, twist.
Finger tip behind them, they stay close at hand (no pun).
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Installing it, you have to place it, well-aligned in the slot, and snap it in with needle nose.
When you have it pre-loaded, you can put your finger tip on top in case you miss.
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Rocket Reel Co. puts the main shaft retaining screw in their assembled brake plates, along with very nice stainless gears and ball-bearing main shaft. However, their brake plate is made for a knobby mag surf tournament reel and doesn't have a centrifugal race.
If you like the stainless gear and BB main shaft, it's cheaper to buy their assembled brake plate than those parts separately.
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If your question about what Svangsta was thinking needs an answer, it's that the e-clip attachment takes up less height inside a handle cap nut.

If this is the LW spring you're asking about, p/n 975038,
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you start it in the bottom slot and rotate into the top slot, like a door hinge.
It won't go in on top if the worm gear isn't positioned properly side-to-side.
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this is my braid-raced 4600, after initial set-up, casts 3 g to 1 oz without adjustment or backlash.

Morrum was a high-grade Ambassadeur, their answer to Shimano Calcutta.
Neither Black Max nor Silver Max were spendy, but they have current fans who still fish them on BR forum,
along with 5500 and 5600.
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Jay Lucas »

Handy information. I note your solution to taking off the E-clips is similar to what I arrived at. I discovered I could use the screwdriver in one of those cheapy glasses repair kits, $2-4, and it works nicely. And your solution for putting the clips back on is also what I have finally arrived at. I always lost mine trying to put them back on, various methods, but once you get that dang little E-clip loaded up with some pressure that thing goes off like an invisible rocket if you can't control it. Unfortunately when I started I found some success grabbing the clip in the middle and forcing it on with a straight push. It can work except when it doesn't and I found it to have a 25% failure rate. :( It seems like every answer on this forum brings to light new information.
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Ron Mc »

thanks for your reply - was hoping to be helpful.

and as I said, your timing couldn't have been better, because I was photographing my conversion brake plate, and had the camera on tripod already at hand.
I did perturb a few electrons to get those keeper shots.
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Midway Tommy D »

Good suggestions, Ron. I've always used those methods and they work well. I aways try to keep my hand or finger over the post when working with the little boogers. My solution to dealing with got-aways, though, was to spend a couple of bucks at McMaster-Carr and buy a few hundred in various sizes so I don't have to crawl around on my hands and knees on the floor with a magnet. :D
Love those Open Face Spinning Reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco)

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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Ron Mc »

Thanks Tom,

this is not a recommendation, but since I'm always shopping in Japan, and have been for 20 years, I can always put a Hedgehog small parts order together...
easy to throw these in, offered in all the sizes we might need, 2.5 mm, 3 mm, 3.5 mm...
https://www.hedgehog-studio.co.jp/product/5437
1500/2500C has 2.5 mm on spur gear and 3 mm on idler gear
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Totally aside, here's a part that most always ends up in my cart - totally useful hook-keeper on a new baitcaster.
https://www.hedgehog-studio.co.jp/product/4215

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and even on old
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Jay Lucas »

[image][/img]Don't know if the pic comes through or not, but the black max i have is a round reel not oval shaped. 030004 on the base plate
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Jay Lucas »

Image
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Ron Mc »

your handle is in the way, hiding 5500/5600 thumb clutch difference.
Black Max 5600, March 2000

https://www.abugarcia.com/abugarcia-ree ... rch=Search
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Jay Lucas »

Yup, that's it and those are the brass gears that made me decide no further disassembly necessary. :?
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Ron Mc »

If you plan to fish the reel, new drag washers are always appropriate.
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Upgrade to carbontex is always a good choice, and delivers the 3-5-lb drag you want for most fishing.
Valleyhill offers B-trap washers, which deliver the 7-8-lb drag surf fishermen want.
(they also refer to snakehead fishing for B-trap drag washers)
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Patrick Z »

Ron Mc wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 2:26 pm
Your timing was good, I happened to have my 1500C on the bench, just finished converting it to 1500CIAR.
Not to hijack the OP's thread, but this line caught my attention as I would like to retro-convert my Abu ProMax 1600 the other way, back to a conventional anti-reverse. I have never liked IAR as I find they eliminate all feedback from your lure/fish bites through the reel handle (much like a roller bearing headset does on a low trail bicycle since I know you're into C&V bikes as well) and you are solely dependent on the rod for feeling these vibrations. I seem to recall that David Fritts also thought this way and had Lews offer his signature reels with a conventional anti-reverse, but I don't think many were sold.
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Ron Mc »

Patrick Z wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:24 pm Not to hijack the OP's thread, but this line caught my attention as I would like to retro-convert my Abu ProMax 1600 the other way, back to a conventional anti-reverse. I have never liked IAR as I find they eliminate all feedback from your lure/fish bites through the reel handle (much like a roller bearing headset does on a low trail bicycle since I know you're into C&V bikes as well) and you are solely dependent on the rod for feeling these vibrations. I seem to recall that David Fritts also thought this way and had Lews offer his signature reels with a conventional anti-reverse, but I don't think many were sold.
Hi Patrick,
All those old BB-1s were optional A/R, and I replaced 3 A/R dogs on my BB-1NG, which fished the salt from '84 to '05 - redfish impacts were hard on them. Gets frenetic in the boat when your A/R disappears, and you suddenly need a 3rd hand.
Thought my BB-25SW with IAR roller bearing was next level - just retired it in 2018.
That's not the salty reel below, but a different BB1-N, still with optional A/R switch and dog.
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First off, there's a difference in the hole through the face plate that will likely prevent this from being possible - a 5500C3 face plate with the A/R roller bearing removed for replacement.
The boss on the face plate is thinner and larger I.D. to accept the roller bearing.
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I have the brake plate and face plate photos from my 1500C (now CI) to compare.
Stock -C plates with A/R dog
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IAR brake plate and roller-bearing face plate.
New Avail parts include the brake plate, main shaft, and click-wheel with integral A/R sleeve.
The main shaft and spindle are longer, because the spring bellville washers go on top of the A/R sleeve.
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If you simply pressed the roller bearing out and installed a 2500C drive, you'd need a custom nylon bushing with larger OD to replace the black one in my second photo above.

Adding something important about these. The damping and friction of that black nylon bushing is Way greater than roller bearing and metal A/R sleeve. First thing I noticed with my IAR conversion, the IAR reel winds with Zero intertia, while the stock 1500C with that black bushing always winds like you're lifting a brick - totally unnatural feel in the tiny reel, and puts a brick between you and the fish.
It's hugely improved by the IAR.

I get more finesse and feel from my (braid-raced) C3CT surf reels than stock 1500C non-IAR
I built the gold 6.3-geared 4500CT just for finesse micro-jigs (and will have a report after January glass minnow trip)
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ps - needle bearing headset makes this bike really stable with a big front load (grocery-bag-size Ostrich bag).
This is my bike-fish bike, built on CX frame.
I have both a 6-pc fly rod and telescoping stream baitcaster that fit in the half-frame bag.
Wet-wading boots and fishing bag in the front rando bag, bike sundries and lunch in back.
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There are county road crossings where you're not allowed to park a car. But if you roll your bike into the gravel flood-plain sendero and cafe-lock it to a tree, that's state, no longer county.
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Ron Mc »

Patrick Z wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:24 pm ...I would like to retro-convert my Abu ProMax 1600 the other way, back to a conventional anti-reverse. ...
Sorry about quoting you out of context.
I did look at your schematic.

I also checked Black Max 1600 - they're virtually identical, and both use IAR roller bearing.
The drive is based on the mid-frame Ambassadeurs.
I don't think you'll be able to find a brake plate with an A/R dog post that works here.
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Patrick Z »

Hi Ron,

First of all, awesome posts as usual! Yes, I had checked into retrofitting the 1600 several years ago and determined that I would have to peen a post onto the brake plate for the ratchet dog and decided that was more modification than I wanted to attempt!

Basically, for me it comes down to preference of feel. I like to fish Marhoffs, Sportcasts, Lurecasts, etc. on traditional tubular steel rods (and some fiberglass) and Mitchells and similar vintage spinners with the anti-reverse turned off on spinning gear, and I like the direct connection to whatever is at the end of the line - even if my knuckles get occasionally whacked by a strong strike! With a traditional dog and ratchet anti-reverse like on my Abu 522, you still get some back wind feel through the handle but eliminate busted knuckles. It's about as close to modernity as I care to fish with these days. I also don't notice any friction differences on my reels, though early IAR bearings seemed more stiff and sluggish to me.

P.S. and super-cool fishing bike. I will post mine sometime when I'm posting from my phone (where all the photos reside) - a Raleigh Sprite 27 frankenbike with a Sturmey S5 IGH and dynohub.
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Ron Mc »

Thanks!
look forward to it - we may have to take it to the Everything Else page.
My bikes are all geared for climbing TX hill country, oldest is '57 Raleigh Lenton from bare frame, with custom-engineered bottom, but looks all correct on top. The most stunning is an '85 Mercian.

Bike-fish is a joy, because the limestone creeks you want to fish here are also the best places to pedal.
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____________________________________________

adding a ps here - there's a family-run shop in Tokyo, Isuzu Industries (not the car maker)
that bench-makes the Ambassadeur that should have been.

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All limited run with lottery sales and a huge collector following in Japan.
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They build their reels as limited run for other marques, Smith Plugger, Robelson, Frog Products, and many others.
The Japanese sealed-in-box collector market is huge on these, and scalp them on Yahoo and ebay, but close Yahoo following can find auction examples for realistic prices ($400-600).
They've only built one model that uses IAR roller bearing, and their norm is A/R dog.
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This is Meek and Talbot 100 years ago, but with 100 years of invention behind them.

Watch this spin video on Robelson Maverick
https://blog.goo.ne.jp/goober_goober/e/ ... d5c0735149
I may end up with one of these next year...
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Patrick Z »

Those custom reels are exquisite! I like how the first one combines the classic Abu mechanicals with the tear-drop shape reminiscent of direct drive Shakespeares and their later Model 1969 free-spool reels. Thanks for sharing!
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Re: abu garcia handy knowledge and 2 questions...

Post by Ron Mc »

Thanks Patrick,
You might equally like the rods Smith Ltd makes to go with round baitcast reels.
https://www.smith.jp/superstrike/top.html
They reproduced the Champion handle in magnesium, and build a range of rod blades in glass and graphite.
They sell complete rods, separate handles and rod blades, 3/8" collet to fit their handle to vintage Fenwick rod blades, their 12-mm ferrules in a range of rod butt diameters to build your own rod blade from blank.
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Again, these come and go in limited runs, and ebay listings mostly represent the scalpers.
I bought my handle from Amazon.jp stock (OOS now), and two different rod blades from Asian Portal -
-5'6" ML glass (above) and 6' MH graphite (below)
If you find an ebay listing on Smith Super Strike from Asian Portal, they're selling retail + FedEx -
- they also end up with the best inventory of these rare rods.
I recently found a very fair Yahoo price ($100) on a second handle, so I can fish them together - but I need another round reel project ...
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