Help Dating Pflueger Summit

[mark bumgarner]

Picked up an older Pflueger Summit at Lake George and was wondering if anyone could help me date this reel. The wording on the end of level wind reads "PFLUEGER SUMMIT TRADE MARK MADE IN U.S.A." no model #. There are seven patents pending listed on the inside of frame. Reel has ABL adjustment at 10 oclock position on face plate and extra pawl and retainer screw.
Plot Thickens, when I picked the reel up the crank handles disintegrated, so will be looking for replacement options.
Please Advise!

Bummy

[leland99]

Hi Mark, I always end up referring to this tool when trying to date a Summit. You might share an image of remnants of the handle/knobs and I can see if I have a match.

[mark bumgarner]

Thanks Bryce, thats a nice guide. Looks like I have the 1929 model 1993. The remnants of the grips are no longer with us, may they rest in pieces. The plot thickens a bit as the crank handle is also broken where the knob rivet attaches so I am looking at a replacement crank at this point.
I dont think this is the original crank as it looks like it has been in a fire but the rest of the reel is very nice. Would gladly purchase a replacement if anyone has one catalog correct.
Thanks again Bryce
Bummy

[40fordflathead]

If you can provide a picture of what the handle should look like I would be more than happy to look in my handle stash.

[mark bumgarner]

Thanks Bruce, I believe this is the correct crank handle. I know these are tough find in good condition, so if you or someone else has one and are willing to let go I am certainly willing to purchase.
Thanks again!
Bummy

[40fordflathead]

I took a look to no avail.

[mark bumgarner]

Thanks for the try Bruce. I think this reel will just have to go in parts bin. It will be easier to buy another reel than to get this hard to come by crank handle. Only out $15.00, really only bought it because I felt bad when I was handling it and the knobs crumbled. Have a good day all.
Bummy

[Bill Sonnett]

Mark the fact that it has an extra pawl tell me it was made in 1930 or later. If the pawl is hels in place by a flat plate or a slotted round cup. This feature changed in 1941.

[David Lehmann]

Mark,
You described the Summit that was offered roughly between 1931 and 1935. It should have a black and white marbled handle. Check out Bob Miller's article on the Summit in the Spring, 1999 issue of the The Reel News. It goes through varieties and dates. As a member, you have free access to all back issues!

Cheers,
D

[Paul Roberts]

If it is he black/gray/white marbled handle, it should be findable. Check with Dick Janek or EBay.

[mark bumgarner]

Well thanks everyone. Thought maybe a couple more pics would help. Bill, you can see from pics extra pawl is domed screw cover, thanks for your input. And thanks to David and Paul for their thoughts. Maybe all is not so gloomy for this beauty. She will get a good cleaning when I find a crank for her.
Thank you ALL again.
Bummy

[Bill Sonnett]

I have a complete collection of Summits starting in 1927 through 1970. Yours is right at 1930. It is the last reel with the amber handles.

[David Lehmann]

No disrespect intended to any other posters, but I'm pretty sure that the reel that you displayed is the reel Bob Miller described as the 1931 to 1934 version. The 1930 version did have amber knobs but did not have a spare pawl container in the headplate. Shown below are Bob's table from the Reel News, two pictures of an example of a reel that I had that came in a 1932-dated box (stamped on bottom) and two pictures of another example of the same version of the reel. I've had a lot of these reels with seven patent dates and a spare pawl container, and they all have had the black and white mottled handle. It would not shock me to see one with amber handles (Pflueger just did not waste leftover parts!), but a black and white mottled handle is appropriate for this reel.

Cheers!
David

[Bill Sonnett]

I discussed this with Bob Miller years ago and noted that I had a reel that he showed as 1931 but with amber handles. He ventured that someone may have changed out the handle. However, this combination has been seen over and over, and if I recall correctly there is such a reel shown on the cover of Bob's book with amber handles. There is ample proof that the first Supreme and other Pflueger reels were first equipped with an extra pawl in 1930. There is no reason to think the Summit is any different. Bob also noted that there is no 1930 catalog that would show the amber handles.

[David Lehmann]

Bill,
That makes sense. I've found other examples where reels deviate from the chart (and other charts, like the Superme's) by a bit (a year or less). Some changes probably happened mid-year, and there were also probably periods of overlap during which old stock and new versions were being released concurrently. But, if Mark pairs his reel with a mottled handle, it would be entirely consistent with the 7-patent stamping and spare pawl features.

[mark bumgarner]

So based on the chart it looks like the big difference between 5th and 6th version was the introduction of the Diamolite finish. Also The 6th version says the J was dropped from the model#. So did they reintroduce the J back into the model number in 1932 as is indicated on your box? PUZZLER
So was finish on the Summit German Silver then Diamolite on German Silver and then Polished Diamolite on German Silver? And David is the reel with the box Diamolite? I know later boxes included Diamolite on the box label but this box does not.

[Paul Roberts]

Chasing the vagaries of Pflueger production possibly?

Mark, is your reel nickel silver or diamolite (chromed). Tough to tell in the pic. Darn pretty reel. The scrollwork pattern of the earlier Summits is lovely.

[Bill Sonnett]

Mark the J simply means jeweled referring to the bearing caps. The reel was also available at that time with plain metal end caps in which case the box was not marked J. I am not at home at present, but in the next few days, I will be and can take a picture of a 1929, 1930 and 1931 reel side by side. It is also worth mentioning that all the Pflueger boxes from this period on have the date they left the factory stamped on the bottom if it is still legible and assuming that someone has not switched the reels in the box. This last fact seems to have escaped most folks. A prime example was for years there was much conjecture as to when Pflueger used plastic spools on the Summit. the Akron the Nobby and the Skilcast. I turned over dozens of boxed reels with plastic spools and with the exception of one being daterdDec 1947. every other reel was dated 1948. Mystery solved.

[mark bumgarner]

Hello and thanks guys. Paul, my real is diamolite it just needs a good cleaning, this is what makes me think 1931 per chart. Bill looking forward to pictures, nothing like a hands on library. I know those boxes can be tricky, I have replaced roached out box bottoms on some of my Bronson reels but there was no stamping on them but I can see someone doing the same with stamped boxes and that could become a nightmare.
On another note went to an auction today which had some Pflueger, Millsite, and Al Foss CARDBOARD countertop advertising pieces, all sold in the 800 to 900 dollar range. About three times what I expected!

[Bill Sonnett]

Tried to line all 5 of these up, but there was not enough detail in photos. Let me preface this by saying that models did not change on 1 January so I prefer to use the term "season". Rather than wade through all the patent dates (many of which have nothing to do with the object they are printed on) I find it far simpler, especially at the beginning of a reel's or lure's history (when physical changes came fast and furiously) to look at obvious changes. The picture of the three first Summits shows the change in the "engraving pattern from 1927 to 1928 and the addition of the anti-backlash control knob in 1929. The picture of the last two reels shows the addition of the extra pawl feature in 1930 and the change from the amber-colored handle grasps in 1931.

[Paul Roberts]

Interesting that the first season model has the flatter “low frequency” wave engraving. They then went back to this in much later seasons.

Also, are the 1931 handle knobs black and tan? Can’t quite make out.

[Bill Sonnett]

The third engraving pattern you note is "later" but definitely quite different than the first pattern.

[mark bumgarner]

Thanks for the prodding Paul, I got the reel cleaned up Sunday afternoon.
Used Johns method of dish soap and a toothbrush, could not believe how nice she cleaned up so simply.
What a nice collection of reels Bill. Is the 1930 reel German silver and the 1931 Diamolite? My reel is Diamolite plated which makes me think it is the 1931 (6th version) reel. As Dave said it is possible Pflueger used left over parts so either crank could be correct for this reel. I would gladly purchase the Black and White (or tan) crank if anyone has one.
Thanks again to All
Bummy

[Paul Roberts]

Very nice, Mark. Gosh those Summits are pretty reels.

Attaching a photo of a couple of mine (both L’s) that show newer engraving, and handles. Bob Miller's table mentions the white knobs first appearing in 1948 and with Phillips screws on the foot which mine has. The reel with the gray and white knobs is a much later version as I have a freespool Akron (model 1895) with the same handle, in the original box dated in the 1960's. Pflueger kept on making these reels for some time!


Thought I'd also share this short video by a guy in the UK who takes his grandpa's Summit out for a spin. Nice little vid, and one that got me looking for a Summit to try my hand fishing with. His reel shows black and translucent yellowish knobs -a very pretty knob color I think. I have one like that too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lT0PGyPryA&t=488s

[Bill Sonnett]

In southern Michigan in 2005 we had an extraordinary week in November when the temperature was in the 70's for almost an entire week, The weeds were down and every afternoon Bass moved into the shallows where the bottom was black muck and the water temperature rose as the day progressed. Five days in a row I caught Bass of 5 pounds or more in the mid-afternoon using a shallow running Shakespeare mouse. I bring this up only because the reel I was using was a 1993L Summit.