ustonsons reel

[TVY]

Hello every body. I came across this site after google lead me here! I was researching ustonsons reels, and an old link came up for here, as it has been discussed before.

I apologise as I know very little about fishing, but I know these reels are quite a collectable/rare item.

I have one!

I put it on ebay yesterday, and it has generated a huge amount of interest, to the point where it is quite scary!

I have had offers to end the sale, I have been told to remove the item as it is the "holy grail" and sell it at a specialist auction and so on and so on.

The one thing I cant seem to get anybody to stick their neck out and say is What Is It Really Worth?


Im waiting on a couple of valuers getting back to me, so I dont want to remove it until I hear, but what if they get back to me and say its worth less than what I could make through e-bay?

There is a fishing auction here in england on 13 October in Devon. Im wondering whether to hold out till then...

HELP! It would be really really great to hear some of your opinions as to value, advice on selling, history etc etc. Ive googled a fair bit on the history, so am pretty clued up on the basics, but if you have anything you can add i would really appreciate it!

thanks in advance

sharon

oops edited to add, the link below is to my photobucket for some pictures. the inscription reads Ustonsons makers for the Queen Temple Bar London, but the pictures do not do it any justice (im rubbish at photography)

http://s41.photobucket.com/albums/e266/ ... on%20reel/

[Richard Lodge]

Sharon: It does sound like you have a very desireable reel, but my opinion would be that the market will determine what the reel is "worth." I don't think it would be fair to post it on eBay, find out there was a lot of excitement and interest in the reel, then pull it OFF eBay because you think you can get more money through another type of auction.
As to what the reel is worth, you could have it appraised by someone who knows those reels, but the bottom line is that is only an opinion and the true price the reel might bring will come only when someone is actually willing to PAY the price. I've bought reels for $5 and sold them on eBay for $100, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Does that mean the reel is worth exactly $100? Yes, that day to that high bidder.
My recommendation would be to let the auction continue and be happy with the results. Since you didn't know much about the reel at the outset, you are now at the whim of people bidding on it who might see real value in it and might be willing to pay a high price. They might or they might not, but that's what the auction world is all about. You could pull the reel off the auction, take it to an expert in that type of reel, be told it's "worth" $100 pounds or $1 million pounds, but if no one is willing to spend that money, what have you learned? Maybe you've learned you have an historic reel that is rare and probably very desireable, but you can't find anyone willing to pay what you have been told it is worth.
I hope others weigh in on this question because I think it speaks to the ethics of posting items for sale on eBay and the importance of education about reels and the vagaries of "value."
good luck with it.
Richard

[TVY]

thanks richard, i value your imput. i really want more and more opinions as im getting some really high offers, but as you know with ebay, they dont always come to anything!

I have written to ALL the bidders who have placed bids within the first 24 hours (something i never do, but hey ho!) and informed them of what I am doing off site. They are fine with that. Im not hiding anything from and am only explaining the fact that if I can get the piece to sell for the value it is worth by showing it to others then so be it. They are all happy to be informed of where I take it (if I do).

To be honest, im already happy that it has reached 300 odd pounds sterling, but im niggled at the fact it could be worth a wee bit more. Okay, its only been on 24 hours so my excitment may be getting the better of me, i'll admit that, but I totally understand what you are saying about the ethics behind ebay.

I put a bid in a while back for a parrot cage. the guy sells them all the time and starts them at 99 pence. i was the only bidder on this one and he removed it, no e-mail, no communication whatsoever (he sells 3 or 4 a week normally for between 80 pounds and 150 pounds). people like that annoy me so I let him no in a nice steamy e-mail!

I too look foward to hearing others opinions on the reel.

[Richard Lodge]

Sharon: You really gave me a chuckle and I learned a new word today: Niggled! I love it.
A couple things to keep in mind about eBay:
1) most serious bidding takes place in the last few minutes - or even that last few seconds - that an auction is open. It's no guarantee, but I would bet the final price will rise quickly right at the end, when the real money weighs in. They're called snipers, because they jump in at the last second and spike down what they hope is a high winning bid. Again, no guarantee, just a guess on my part.
2) If you sell through eBay, you're somewhat covered for fraud by a buyer. If they don't come through, or if you were to win an auction and the seller either didn't send the merchandise or it was very different from what was listed, you have recourse to appeal through eBay. If you sell on the side, as a private sale, to one of those people sending you e-mails, you make that sale at your own risk.
Niggled!

[Reel Geezer]

As a long time eBay buyer and seller, I want to say this - It really gripes me when someone closes and auction early. The only reason people are emailing you and making offers if you will close the auction, is that they hope they can get the item for less than it will bring on eBay. Many times I have put a reel on my watching list only to see it disappear before the auction ends. I always make sure to send the seller an email and tell them that I would have paid X dollars for the reel if the auction had continued. I always make X about 3 times what I really would have paid in hopes that the seller took a fraction of my X bid. Serves 'em right!

If you want to know what your reel is worth, have an auction. Remember that bidding will almost stop on days 3-6, and then the high rollers will come on board in the final minute.

[john elder]

I'm with Richard...ride it out! It will be quite a bit of fun for you to watch and keep in mind that all the action will likely be in the last 15 seconds!. All the people that are trying to get you to pull the auction will still be in line at the end, if they are willing to pay what it is worth. I hope your pics in the auction are better than the photobucket ones, however! if not, you need to get some help or a camera that with a decent macro and start adding good pics! That dirty little pig is difficult enough to evaluate thru pics without the poor focus...for the money it might be worth, it is well worth your efforts.

Funny, I was just reading the Vernon "bible" on early Ky reels last night and this was figured to provide a prototype for those early efforts!

[TVY]

lol! we also call them snipers too! and ive sold a few things that way, but been "sniped" myself by not being quick enough...

leaves me feeling... you guessed it, niggled!

ive 26 watchers, so hopefully they snipe in time, and not all at the same time, id hate a really high bidder to miss out.

talking of sniping, there is apparantly some software you can buy specifically for that purpose, that is 100% in line with the ebay clock... never used it myself though.

i prefer to put in what i would pay, let ebay bid on my behalf... and then get beat by somebody putting in a quid more... now that really niggles me!

(off topic... where abouts in the world is this site? ive just noticed that it is only 11.12 pm here, but its 6 hours more where you are... i never gave it a thought when i signed up and have to say i presumed it was american! ... please dont take that the wrong way!)

[TVY]

thanks john, and reel geezer (cool user name ha ha!), i know what you mean about pulling the auction... gripes me too as ive been on the receiving end.

to be perfectly honest i read an article after googling ustonson, and one particular reel (there were apparantly only 4 known) sold for 30,000 pounds... thats what got my ears pricked up! im no way gonna sell for 500 quid something thats worth THAT much more... hence the valuations im going to get.

please keep the posts coming everybody

[Brian F.]

Agreeing with Richard and Geezer, I believe it would be bad ethics to end the auction and sell privately or elsewhere, if not a violaton of ebay's rules. You have a very valuable reel but I don't think you'd do better pulling it off and selling it at some special auction. These "special" auctions say they put items in front of the right people for most money. More and more of these "special" auctions are doing things in conjunction with ebay and are finding prices to be just as good, if not better because the audience is world wide. The only thing you might have done is advertise what you had before listing it. Mentioning it here is a good start after the fact.

That said, a quick google search lead me to this 1999 Sports Afield intro to an article that I can no longer pull up. It starts with: "You may be surprised what a collector would pay Think about the most money you've ever spent on fishing gear. How does $31,350 for a Ustonson reel made ..."

Then, Lawson's Price Guide to Old Fishing Reels, 3rd edition, published in 2001 lists two examples (but one is a fly reel):

Ustonson, smallest known, 1 3/4", brass, extremely rare for $10,450

Ustonson & Peters, fly, 3 5/8"x 1 1/2", IV (ivory) half handle, rare for $3,250.

That's what's in print. Keep in mind that this info is at least 6 years old and that they came from either private sales or the "special" type auctions.

I'd say your reel is probably worth quite a bit more than $10k but have no idea what someone will end up paying.

[TVY]

Agreeing with Richard and Geezer, I believe it would be bad ethics to end the auction and sell privately or elsewhere, if not a violaton of ebay's rules. You have a very valuable reel but I don't think you'd do better pulling it off and selling it at some special auction. These "special" auctions say they put items in front of the right people for most money. More and more of these "special" auctions are doing things in conjunction with ebay and are finding prices to be just as good, if not better because the audience is world wide. The only thing you might have done is advertise what you had before listing it. Mentioning it here is a good start after the fact.

That said, a quick google search lead me to this 1999 Sports Afield intro to an article that I can no longer pull up. It starts with: "You may be surprised what a collector would pay Think about the most money you've ever spent on fishing gear. How does $31,350 for a Ustonson reel made ..."

Then, Lawson's Price Guide to Old Fishing Reels, 3rd edition, published in 2001 lists two examples (but one is a fly reel):

Ustonson, smallest known, 1 3/4", brass, extremely rare for $10,450

Ustonson & Peters, fly, 3 5/8"x 1 1/2", IV (ivory) half handle, rare for $3,250.

That's what's in print. Keep in mind that this info is at least 6 years old and that they came from either private sales or the "special" type auctions.

I'd say your reel is probably worth quite a bit more than $10k but have no idea what someone will end up paying.

i agree brian hence the research after the bids and questions started rolling in!

i too saw the articles you googled through the same proceedure, thats what opened my eyes that i might have a bit more on my hands than i first thought...

oh this site is in america (thank god!)... i really dont know why its coming up when i post from here that its GMT + 6 hours? my posts are all saying 4.19am!

[qwapaw]

What is your e-bay add number. Let's all watch this unfold. I agree once an item is listed it should stay on E-Bay. There is a person that has ended many auction on a lot of use and we all would like to get her off E-Bay, but realise she sells a lot and E-Bay doesn't want to loose money by booting her. Anyway put a link on to the reel add if you would. Thanks, Dan U

[TVY]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... %3AIT&rd=1

above is a direct link to the ad. i hope you dont mind me putting it here, i was going to put it in my first post, but thought you may think im "fishing" for buyers, and thats really not the case. i just really want advice and to share it with people in the know, so to speak, as i know feck all about fishing lol!

my speciallity is parrots... i belong to a forum board the same as this but we talk parrots 24/7 (and anything else that comes up), but the more and more i was googling the reel i kept being sent here, so took it as a sign to join up and share it with you!

please keep your opinions coming... im learning as I go along. Have any of you got a Ustonson, or seen one similar to the one i have?

(if any of the moderators can shrink links im happy for them to do so for the ebay one... im rubbish at things like that )

[Richard Lodge]

Sharon: You are right, the site is based in the US, which I believe you folks once called "The Colonies."
I would really urge you to take John's advice about getting really good, clear photos of your reel and subbing those in on your eBay listing. Your photos are ... well... awful! and some really good closeups that show the engraving on the reel and the overall quality and condition would help in a huge way. My fellow posters are right also about some of the people contacting you on the side will be right there at the end of the eBay auction when the time is running out. So find a friend who can take good clear closeups of your reel, suggest to the people contacting you on the side that they should jump into the bidding, and carry this through to the end.

[Steve]

Sharon,
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but the reel doesn't appear in the results of my eBay searches. The reason appears to be that you've listed on eBay.UK. It's likely that a lot of collectors in other countries are going to miss the listing.

John, it was O.U.'s multiplier that probably inspired Snyder. This reel is just another single-action reel that does little but click, add weight to the rod, and develop a nice patina.

[TVY]

did you click the link above steve? that should take you straight to the item.

ive added a couple of extracts from fishing tackle... the anglers bible, which were kindly sent to me, you have to enlarge them to read them, but i hope it gee's up the bidders.

the item number may work alone : 180028098058

let me know?

[TVY]

if not, you will have to go to the bottom of your ebay page and enter the uk website. ( i have to do the same here when i want to enter the usa one, or some of the european ones)

[TVY]

ive realised that because i chose the option not to post abroad (after some bad experiences), it is only available to view in ebay.co.uk. this is a shame because international buyers wont pick it up in a search.

it may just be another reason to stop the listing, not altogeter,but re-list it. im missing out on 90% of the world lol!

off to bed soon, so will fill you all in tomorrow on what the day brings.

thanks for the posts, they mean a lot

[Brian F.]

Sharon, Your link works fine. See if you can change the listing to include it abroad.

[Harvey]

I see it to. Just don't know what that squiggley mark in front of the price means!
"H"

[Brian F.]

ALERT!ALERT!ALERT!ALERT!ALERT!ALERT!

Sharon's auction for the Ustonson reel has already been copied by someone claiming to be in China.



The same seller is also selling some new tackle so I'm assuming others are about to get ripped off.

The real auction is here:



Sharon, I have notified ebay but you should file a claim too.

I hope people notice the obvious red flags: Seller located in China, buy it now for $100+, 3 day auction, item description as "new", etc. I found the phoney auction by doing a "worldwide" search (ie. clicking on the "worldwide" search option box). By the way, Sharon's real auction does not appear when you do that either. The only way to find it is to actually get on and search the UK auctions.

[drexelantiques]

Sharon, by posting to only the UK you have shot yourself in the foot on this reel. That plus the fact you need much better photos, and plenty of them.

Were I selling the reel, I would put it in a specialty auction, where folks can physically examine the reel.

You need better photos if you plan to sell it on eBay, and you need to offer it to the US and Canada, at least, in addition to the UK.


I own a Ustonson reel, but I was very lucky with mine, I bought it from a Canadian antique dealer who had no idea what he had, and I gave him 125 pounds for it 15 years ago.

I do not think you are going to get the best price you could for it on eBay as you currently have it listed, by a longshot.

I can't really tell the condition of the reel, especially from the single photo, that could be a serious drawback.


Were it me, I would pull it, and offer it either in a US specialty auction like Langs, or through one of the UK auction houses that handle sporting items. If you do offer it on eBay you need a new listing with much better photos, plus you need to offer it to at least the US.

As to fairness, I really do not think that enters into it as there is no contract until the hammer falls, meaning the end of the auction. Is it fair to you to have to sell the reel well below market value just because you did not know how to list it, or how to put enough photos, and enough description in the listing. You should have done the research before listing, but that does not mean you should be penalized now. Especially this far out from the end of the listing.

Some have said it is an issue of fairness to current bidders, and I can see that, somewhat, but in this particular case it is not a matter of a seller trying to take advantage of bidders by pulling an auction at the end. It is a seller who just did not do all the research they should before listing. Would cancelling bids, and ending the auction hurt, maybe. Current bidders might be upset, but would they be upset because you did wrong, or just because they were not able to get a bargain because of errors you made?

I am a 25 year collector of tackle, while I may not be as knowledgeable on reel components as many here, I am a long time experienced buyer, seller, auctioneer, and appraiser.

I would advise at the very least ending it, and relisting it with better pictures (and lots of them), US bidding, and a reserve, or higher opening bid. But were it me I would explore other venues as well as selling it on eBay. At the very least consider an auction house that also sells on eBay.

[Brian F.]

Jeff has good points. If you ended an auction because there was an error in the listing, that would technically be ok with ebay. If you end early to sell privately, I understand that would be in violation of their rules. Sounds like you have a mistake in your description.

[Stefan Duma]

Wow, I’ve not posted on here for a long time but I think I ought to and get rid of some of the hype and myths surrounding Ustonson reels.

This was NOT made by Ustonson, at this time the reels were being bought in and stamped by Ustonson.

This reel was in the later days of the company Maker to the Queen was for Queen Victoria which places the reel post 1837.

The book referred to is Graham Turners book a collectors guide and what people have to realise that the book was a precursor to his collection being sold. Therefore if a reel was in his collection it was rarer than something that was not. If you want proof see what is written about the Cascapedia, White Wickham and the John King Farlow reel.

Since the book came out many Ustonson reels have been sold at auction in England, Angling Auctions have had at least 10, Mullock Madeley 5 and Bonham’s 3.

The first ones reached prices over £8,000 and as more and more has surfaced the price has dropped.

The early examples with engraved script bring more than the later ones. At an auction last year one example failed to reach it's reserve of £1,000.

No Ustonson reel sold for $31,000, I think this figure, depending on exchange rate was for the all brass Hardy Perfect or it might have been the Philbrook & Payne, but hey when did facts ever get in the way of journalism.

From my experiences you will possibly get a higher offer to end it early than if you let it run its course. At auction in England I would be suprised if this made £2,000.

If you had exactly the same reel without the engraving it would struggle to sell for £50.

Someone, will believe the hype on the reel and bid, what you need is a second person to join him.

All of the people who have bid are well known collectors in the UK and some of them will put a small bid on when an auction starts so that they can track it in My eBay and come back with a bid later.

The fact that you have listed it in eBay UK will not be a problem I know a few people who do the same and sell world wide. Serious collector will be aware of this fact and set their search fields accordingly.

Remember if you enter it into the Bonhams auction in October you will have fees to pay, possibly somewhere in the region of 20% -25%, they even charge you if they take a picture of your reel and include it in the catalogue..

Good luck

Stefan Duma

[tackler]

Sharon

NOTE - when you on Ebay state the link to your PhotoBucket (or whatever system you use) you indirectly give people access to all the pics you have in there. Beside the reel pics, you open up for the other photos you have stored in there. So if you want to avoid showing the whole world the cute pics of the dog, kids or wife, or perhaps even more personal photos - never use the system like that.

Tackler

[john elder]

enough of all this...I'll give you 4 parrots for the reel and we can be done with it Heck, i'll even throw in a pirate or two///arrr, matey!