Wrote up a little piece on the vibrasonic method of cleaning--I don't claim to be an expert on cleaning ala Milt, John, Ron, Steve, etc. but I will say, for reels that are crudded up, it worked really well.
http://fishinghistory.blogspot.com/
I think it's a nice and easy starter method for cleaning reels, maybe some people will clean a few and decide they like them so much they'll want more!
-- Dr. Todd
My Review of the Vibrasonic Method of Cleaning
Sonic Cleaners
Hi Dr. Todd --
Thanks for sharing your great article. I think people are very fortunate who are able to read your column on a regular basis. It is a great promotion of our sport and collecting interests. The more the public knows about our interests -- the better for everyone.
I have used an ultrasonic cleaner for nearly 10 years now. Maybe I could share a few things learned along the way. I'll try to keep it short.
1) Get one of the 3 or 4 main brands. Stainless steel tank. The advantages are quality, durability, and strong cleaning action. Stay away from one with a heating unit (the action of the vibration heats the solution anyway, and a heating unit is just one more thing to go haywire). Make sure it has a timer for auto shut off. Keep it simple.
2) Just fill the tank with tap water (my main cleaner is 12 x 9 x 8 deep). Use separate containers inside the unit for cleaning. I keep one with a 50/50 mix of simple green and water, one with 1/3 mix white vinegar, and one with a pretty serious purple degreaser. I can use them all at the same time. Stay away from glass or metal containers -- use plastic so there are no scratches. The best plastic containers I have found are the clear plastic covers you get when you buy 100 or 50 cd's in a stack. They are free and have a 5" opening at the top. For anything larger, one can even just stick the solution in a heavy zip lock & drop it into the water.
3) Take an old Penn reel -- disassemble it -- drop all metal parts into the degreaser or simple green depending on how grimy it is -- drop the plates, handle, and any plastic parts into the simple green. Turn it on for 6 minutes. Pour all of the parts out into a strainer & recycle the solution for next time. I usually get 10-20 cleanings before changing the solution.
Rinse everything with warm water. Dry by hand or air compressor. Drop the bearings into kerosene for a few minutes -- dry out -- oil them.
Inspect all parts for any additional cleaning needed with 4/0 wool or brushes. Reassemble, grease, oil, tune, adjust, new drags and ready to go. 45 minutes tops for a good job. Older reels may take a little more time and polishing - but the basics are the same. Experiment on some less expensive reels before you do the valuable ones -- so you can get a feel for the process.
4) Where to get a ultrasonic cleaner? Brand new, ebay, etc. For me, I asked my dentist who he bought his new equipment from -- found a dental equipment supply business that takes these units back in trade all of the time. They need to get rid of them -- they are very high quality -- and have been used carefully and cleaned nearly every day. Cost was $100 for a L&R. These can run $1000 or more new. (Actually, he was a fisherman -- so I cleaned 4 of his reels -- and just did a trade + and got a new customer). Got an extra just in case -- never had to use it yet in 10 years.
They save me a lot of time -- do a much more complete cleaning -- and I could be doing another job while they do their job. And like you say, Doctor -- the difference between a restored reel and a garage rat is about 500%.
Recommend the ultrasonic cleaners highly.
Again, thanks for sharing your column with us.
Best, Fred
Thanks for sharing your great article. I think people are very fortunate who are able to read your column on a regular basis. It is a great promotion of our sport and collecting interests. The more the public knows about our interests -- the better for everyone.
I have used an ultrasonic cleaner for nearly 10 years now. Maybe I could share a few things learned along the way. I'll try to keep it short.
1) Get one of the 3 or 4 main brands. Stainless steel tank. The advantages are quality, durability, and strong cleaning action. Stay away from one with a heating unit (the action of the vibration heats the solution anyway, and a heating unit is just one more thing to go haywire). Make sure it has a timer for auto shut off. Keep it simple.
2) Just fill the tank with tap water (my main cleaner is 12 x 9 x 8 deep). Use separate containers inside the unit for cleaning. I keep one with a 50/50 mix of simple green and water, one with 1/3 mix white vinegar, and one with a pretty serious purple degreaser. I can use them all at the same time. Stay away from glass or metal containers -- use plastic so there are no scratches. The best plastic containers I have found are the clear plastic covers you get when you buy 100 or 50 cd's in a stack. They are free and have a 5" opening at the top. For anything larger, one can even just stick the solution in a heavy zip lock & drop it into the water.
3) Take an old Penn reel -- disassemble it -- drop all metal parts into the degreaser or simple green depending on how grimy it is -- drop the plates, handle, and any plastic parts into the simple green. Turn it on for 6 minutes. Pour all of the parts out into a strainer & recycle the solution for next time. I usually get 10-20 cleanings before changing the solution.
Rinse everything with warm water. Dry by hand or air compressor. Drop the bearings into kerosene for a few minutes -- dry out -- oil them.
Inspect all parts for any additional cleaning needed with 4/0 wool or brushes. Reassemble, grease, oil, tune, adjust, new drags and ready to go. 45 minutes tops for a good job. Older reels may take a little more time and polishing - but the basics are the same. Experiment on some less expensive reels before you do the valuable ones -- so you can get a feel for the process.
4) Where to get a ultrasonic cleaner? Brand new, ebay, etc. For me, I asked my dentist who he bought his new equipment from -- found a dental equipment supply business that takes these units back in trade all of the time. They need to get rid of them -- they are very high quality -- and have been used carefully and cleaned nearly every day. Cost was $100 for a L&R. These can run $1000 or more new. (Actually, he was a fisherman -- so I cleaned 4 of his reels -- and just did a trade + and got a new customer). Got an extra just in case -- never had to use it yet in 10 years.
They save me a lot of time -- do a much more complete cleaning -- and I could be doing another job while they do their job. And like you say, Doctor -- the difference between a restored reel and a garage rat is about 500%.
Recommend the ultrasonic cleaners highly.
Again, thanks for sharing your column with us.
Best, Fred
-
WobblySpindle
- Big ORCA Fan
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:32 pm
Good advice in both, thank you. However, I've seen a suggestion elsewhere that glass containers are preferable for the specific purpose of cleaning ball bearings. The method cited was to suspend the bearing in a small flat-bottomed container (think Testor's paint bottles or small spice bottles) of acetone, then put the bottle in the cleaner surrounded by water, changing the acetone each cycle for as many cycles as it takes to get all the gunk out of the bearing. Sounds reasonable, even though acetone's pretty nasty stuff. The author mentioned a belief that glass did not interfere as much with the ultrasonic waves. Sorry, I can't recall where I saw this.
Fred & Wobbly,
Thanks for the kind words, but it certainly appears you two know a lot more about this then I do. Fred, I learned a lot from your post -- also the Dentist who posted on Joe's Board -- and I think I'll get some Simple Green and use a mixture as well. The Dentist noted he used a 1/2 Vinegar/Water mixture and had good luck with it.
I am going to post a link to this thread as I've gotten a dozen emails inquiring about these ultrasonics...and you've answered the question better than I ever could.
cheers,
Dr. Todd
Thanks for the kind words, but it certainly appears you two know a lot more about this then I do. Fred, I learned a lot from your post -- also the Dentist who posted on Joe's Board -- and I think I'll get some Simple Green and use a mixture as well. The Dentist noted he used a 1/2 Vinegar/Water mixture and had good luck with it.
I am going to post a link to this thread as I've gotten a dozen emails inquiring about these ultrasonics...and you've answered the question better than I ever could.
cheers,
Dr. Todd
for "sonic bath" in all forums so that all that good old stuff will show up.-
WobblySpindle
- Big ORCA Fan
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:32 pm
I just got around to buying one of the small "jewelry cleaner" versions a few months ago, but I'm sold on it. There are some threads here which mention that ultrasonic cleaners are known for causing failures in bronze gears, etc., so they're worth reading. Personally, I figure that if I use the cleaner once or at most twice in the life of a modern reel like an eBay refugee Ambassadeur, I'm not going to worry about harming the gears. I've been using warm water or 1 part white vinegar to 4 parts very warm water in mine, depending on how dirty the parts are, and it's done a good job on everything so far. Degreasing the worst parts with LPS before using the cleaner has kept me from needing to do anything more than occasionally tip the vinegar bottle a little more. The cleaner doesn't remove the need for some occasional lapping or polishing, but it helps.
-
Bill Sonnett
- Super Board Poster
- Posts: 639
- Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 8:19 pm
- Location: Jackson Michigan
It only took me two days to order the thing
after reading Dr Todds piece, but it sat here for a month before trying it out. It does seem to do a great job on one's glasses with a little white vingar in the mix. Can't wait to try it on a reel
I have a few questions when using an ultrasonic cleaner:
Dr. Todd mentioned keeping the parts from touching while in the tank to prevent scratches. The cleaner that I just got has a stainless steel tank and suspension basket that are not lined with plastic. I am thinking that direct contact with parts on these metal surfaces would be a bad idea also?
If I were to use thin sheets of rubber to separate parts and pad the tank/basket, would it interfere with the cleaning process?
I take it that parts don't move around much during the cleaning process?
I know, I know,
I should just take a beater and try it out.
Dr. Todd mentioned keeping the parts from touching while in the tank to prevent scratches. The cleaner that I just got has a stainless steel tank and suspension basket that are not lined with plastic. I am thinking that direct contact with parts on these metal surfaces would be a bad idea also?
If I were to use thin sheets of rubber to separate parts and pad the tank/basket, would it interfere with the cleaning process?
I take it that parts don't move around much during the cleaning process?
I know, I know,
I should just take a beater and try it out.Brian,
Hmmm. I think the rubber should work, but I guess you won't know until you try it out. I was told the rubber/plastic container was mainly from keeping the actual tank from being scratched, although part-against-part rubbing might indeed scratch up the end plates of a nice reels.
Let us know how it turns out!
-- Dr. Todd
Hmmm. I think the rubber should work, but I guess you won't know until you try it out. I was told the rubber/plastic container was mainly from keeping the actual tank from being scratched, although part-against-part rubbing might indeed scratch up the end plates of a nice reels.
Let us know how it turns out!
-- Dr. Todd
I've been knocking around the idea of buying a 1 gallon capacity sized ultrasonic cleaner. What I was wondering is how much will they remove?
I took a few old Penn reels apart out of my parts pile and took them over to one dealer who sells the cleaners here. I'm not sure what fluid or cleaner they were using but it was blue in color.
I wasn't really all that impressed with the results, it seemed to remove all the dry caked on bits but did nothing for any green corrosion or grease residue. That one was also a heated model.
What I am looking to do is avoid having to use any harsh chemicals around the shop, but the results of the test batch weren't really worth the trouble.
I didn't see any big results. They ran the cleaner for about 20 minutes, and the water was barely touchable temp wise, hot but not hot enough to do any damage. They said that the water could be turned up hotter.
What I'd really like to do is cut out some of the hours of scrubbing and polishing old reels in order to bring them back to presentable condition.
Being in a saltwater area, nearly everything has some level of corrosion to deal with as well.
How much should one of those cleaners be capable of removing?
Will they clean any corrosion or just dirt?
I took a few old Penn reels apart out of my parts pile and took them over to one dealer who sells the cleaners here. I'm not sure what fluid or cleaner they were using but it was blue in color.
I wasn't really all that impressed with the results, it seemed to remove all the dry caked on bits but did nothing for any green corrosion or grease residue. That one was also a heated model.
What I am looking to do is avoid having to use any harsh chemicals around the shop, but the results of the test batch weren't really worth the trouble.
I didn't see any big results. They ran the cleaner for about 20 minutes, and the water was barely touchable temp wise, hot but not hot enough to do any damage. They said that the water could be turned up hotter.
What I'd really like to do is cut out some of the hours of scrubbing and polishing old reels in order to bring them back to presentable condition.
Being in a saltwater area, nearly everything has some level of corrosion to deal with as well.
How much should one of those cleaners be capable of removing?
Will they clean any corrosion or just dirt?
-
WobblySpindle
- Big ORCA Fan
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:32 pm
There's a whole world of industrial ultrasonic cleaners out there, far removed from the little Asian jewelry cleaners like mine. I have a vintage (1914) flugelhorn in the shop awaiting some work, and the shop has switched from the traditional acid bath to ultrasonic cleaning. It's one of the best brass repair shops in the country, so I have to assume he wouldn't have done that without having gotten satisfactory results.
A buddy let me borrow one for a while, it's made in Japan, but no name on it. It holds 3qts of fluid. I filled it just above the minimum line with water and tried several cleaners he recommended. ( He uses it to clean vintage bicycle parts). I took a fairly nasty looking Penn #9 apart for a test subject, it's covered in green fuzzy corrosion and loads of salt deposits and years of old grease and oil caked on it everywhere. I brushed the heavy stuff off and sprayed down the internals with some penetrant to loosen any old grease.
I first did a 1.5 minute cycle in Dawn dish soap mixed 50/50 with water in a separate container, it did nothing, so I ran it again for a 15 minute run and it still did little to clean the parts. I then removed the parts from the tub, put in only the rails and some chrome into just the water and it did more than the detergent in the separate tub but took off no corrosion. I tried Simple Green, two unspecified ultrasonic cleaning powders, and vinegar and nothing touched the corrosion, the jewelery powder did the most, with Simple green mixed 50/50 was a close second for grease and dirt. The salt disolved in plain water so that wasn't an issue. Nothing did anything for corrosion, I still had to rub that off with bronze wool and polish. The resulting mess in the tank though took as long to clean up as the reel itself would have. The longest cycle is 30 minutes, and it can be set in 1.5 minute intervals up to 10 minutes, and there after its 15, 20 and 30 minute runs with an optional automatic repeat which I believe will repeat the last cycle automatically, I've not tried that yet. It's a heated tank unit, without the heater, the fluid really don't gain any heat. I did use already hot water each time so I didn't run the heater but it does get hot pretty fast. Hot enough to burn you in only a few minutes. I wouldn't run any plastic in it with the heater on, at least until I do a few test parts first.
My buddy uses it for cleaning items like bicycle dérailleurs and parts with small crevasses, he's cleaned items for me, but mostly things that can't easily be cleaned in solvents or with a brush, or those with delicate plastic or rubber parts that can't be removed or exposed to solvents.
It's the same machine, so I don't know what he does different. Either the dirt on these reals is that tough or I'm doing something wrong.
Years ago we had a commercial machine on loan at work as a trial. We were looking for something to clean transmission parts which could eliminate the hazmat costs of running a caustic hot tank. Several companies sent out various machines as demos to try, we had about 5 over the coarse of three months, and after that period, decided that the job was better done by caustic. The ultrasonic cleaners would dry or clean all the grease but not baked on dirt of carbon, and it would often re adhere dirt of clean the dirt deposits to the point where the weren't visible but not remove them. Each company tried to solve the problems but none did and to this day that shop still uses a caustic tank to clean parts.
I was directly involved with the whole decision at that time, and believe me, I'd have loved to not have had to deal with a boiling acid bath every day to clean parts, but the ultrasonic cleaners didn't cut it. This was 4 years ago.
All of the 5 machines they had tried were major names, I won't mention those here because I can't say if it was the machines not working or if we were asking something of them they weren't capable off.
I think that may be the case here.
I have no doubt that if I took a part which was freshly lubed or had only dry loose dirt on it, this cleaner here would have no problems, but it don't seem to do anything with caked on and adhered dirt and grease. If I need to use a solvent which melts the grease on contact, I don't need the machine at all, the same if its not able to remove corrosion. When I say corrosion, I mean the green moss like growth found on reels used in saltwater, which is 90% of all those I get in the shop here.
I first did a 1.5 minute cycle in Dawn dish soap mixed 50/50 with water in a separate container, it did nothing, so I ran it again for a 15 minute run and it still did little to clean the parts. I then removed the parts from the tub, put in only the rails and some chrome into just the water and it did more than the detergent in the separate tub but took off no corrosion. I tried Simple Green, two unspecified ultrasonic cleaning powders, and vinegar and nothing touched the corrosion, the jewelery powder did the most, with Simple green mixed 50/50 was a close second for grease and dirt. The salt disolved in plain water so that wasn't an issue. Nothing did anything for corrosion, I still had to rub that off with bronze wool and polish. The resulting mess in the tank though took as long to clean up as the reel itself would have. The longest cycle is 30 minutes, and it can be set in 1.5 minute intervals up to 10 minutes, and there after its 15, 20 and 30 minute runs with an optional automatic repeat which I believe will repeat the last cycle automatically, I've not tried that yet. It's a heated tank unit, without the heater, the fluid really don't gain any heat. I did use already hot water each time so I didn't run the heater but it does get hot pretty fast. Hot enough to burn you in only a few minutes. I wouldn't run any plastic in it with the heater on, at least until I do a few test parts first.
My buddy uses it for cleaning items like bicycle dérailleurs and parts with small crevasses, he's cleaned items for me, but mostly things that can't easily be cleaned in solvents or with a brush, or those with delicate plastic or rubber parts that can't be removed or exposed to solvents.
It's the same machine, so I don't know what he does different. Either the dirt on these reals is that tough or I'm doing something wrong.
Years ago we had a commercial machine on loan at work as a trial. We were looking for something to clean transmission parts which could eliminate the hazmat costs of running a caustic hot tank. Several companies sent out various machines as demos to try, we had about 5 over the coarse of three months, and after that period, decided that the job was better done by caustic. The ultrasonic cleaners would dry or clean all the grease but not baked on dirt of carbon, and it would often re adhere dirt of clean the dirt deposits to the point where the weren't visible but not remove them. Each company tried to solve the problems but none did and to this day that shop still uses a caustic tank to clean parts.
I was directly involved with the whole decision at that time, and believe me, I'd have loved to not have had to deal with a boiling acid bath every day to clean parts, but the ultrasonic cleaners didn't cut it. This was 4 years ago.
All of the 5 machines they had tried were major names, I won't mention those here because I can't say if it was the machines not working or if we were asking something of them they weren't capable off.
I think that may be the case here.
I have no doubt that if I took a part which was freshly lubed or had only dry loose dirt on it, this cleaner here would have no problems, but it don't seem to do anything with caked on and adhered dirt and grease. If I need to use a solvent which melts the grease on contact, I don't need the machine at all, the same if its not able to remove corrosion. When I say corrosion, I mean the green moss like growth found on reels used in saltwater, which is 90% of all those I get in the shop here.