Reel ID help

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Ed Clark
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Reel ID help

Post by Ed Clark »

Image

Need help to identify a reel. It has some features which may be particular to a make. The reel has a tiny oil hole in the clicker button. The pillars have no screw slots on them - there are little caps that screw onto the end of the pillar. The foot is a one piece similar to malleson/mills? Any help would be appreciated. Also a value range. I tried to post a picture - if it does not work here is the link:

http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif?ejc4reels/pic1

Thanks,
Ed Clark
reels4me

Reel ID

Post by reels4me »

I`m not near experienced as Steve Vernon, Phil White, but have been at
it awhile. My opinions; Conroy, Fritz or Edw. Vom Hofe, hopefuly one
of the earlier mentioned will have a more educated opinion. Wanna`
sell ?---Jack
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reel id

Post by joe klaus »

Ed:
That is a beautiful reel. Perhaps I get hee hawed off the Board, but I suspect your reel is early Julius Vom Hofe.
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Ed Clark
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Post by Ed Clark »

There is no hole in the foot. It is solid and humped where the pillars would be - similar to malleson or mills types. It is marked 100 on the bottom and has a bench mark 18 stamped on it and on the internal parts also.

Ed
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Post by joe klaus »

It's my understanding that Julius did not always put a hole in the foot
in his early reels. Therefore you can't rule out Julius simply because no hole in foot.

Can you get it apart without too much trouble and shoot a pic of the inside of the front head plate/ head cover?
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Ed Clark
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Post by Ed Clark »

Please - if anyone can identify any of these features I would appreciate any help.

Thanks again,
Ed
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Ed Clark
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Post by Ed Clark »

I have taken more pictures if that might help someone. Here is the link http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif ... s/unknown/ . If you have any ideas you may post or email me at . Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks again,
Ed
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Ron Mc
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Post by Ron Mc »

Ed, I would think that spring and pawl in reel3
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif ... nown/reel3
has got to be a dead giveaway - to someone who knows - it's not me.
reels4me

ID

Post by reels4me »

Ed--Just checked a possible, have a very similar one and it`s a
Whiting and Hendrick...not Hendryx, check with Steve Vernon--Jack
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Ed Clark
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Post by Ed Clark »

Jack - thanks - you be on to something. Steve and I are comparing notes on the reels. He is a saint and has extensive knowledge - thanks to all!

Ed
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Post by joe klaus »

yep. I've got one too with similar spring/click like device. Which is why I wanted to see it. So post the answer when you and Mr. Steve arrive at a conclusion.
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Another Unmarked/Unknown????

Post by joe klaus »

Following Reel is unmarked but has been compared to known julius vom hofe with finding of many similarities:


If anyone is interested, I have a few more pics of this reel which can viewed by clicking the following links:
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif?max5555/a1.jpg
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif?max5555/a3.jpg
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif?max5555/a4.jpg
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif?max5555/a7.jpg
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif?max5555/a5.jpg
Last edited by joe klaus on Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ed Clark
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Post by Ed Clark »

Joe - Nice reel! The spring/click system is the same. That is the only thing I can find. You have the reverse "S" handle, and the foot looks like the old Terry type - I'm sure others used the same style. As far as Steve is concerned - it is still a mystery reel. It has similarities of different makers - but nothing he can pin-point as one maker.

Thanks,
Ed
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Post by joe klaus »

I'm not sure about other reel makers of this era. But I think Julius made whatever struck his fancy when he woke up on any particular day. Lots of variation with foot, oil caps and handles (or whatever). No particular pattern at this time of his life.
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Post by john elder »

I wonder if julius was a heavy drinker? Ed was clearly a good, hardworking church-goer who never did anything wrong, as attested to by his boffo reels. However, JVH was all over the place...maybe hangover related?
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Post by Jim Schottenham »

JVH musta been sober as a judge the day he put this together (at least I suspect this is JVH...or as Henry Caldwell likes to say, "Blame it on Malleson!")

This bi-metal is very well made with great square pillars!
I'm hoping all your efforts come up with an ID, I have the same reel in nickle plate, same gear bridge, pawl and external click w/ an oil hole.
No matter who made 'em, they sure are nice reels!
Jim Schottenham
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Post by Ed Clark »

Jim - that's a sweet reel! You people should have been posting these on the "Show Time" post that Dean Smith has up. By the way Jim - mine is nickle plated also - just was a little dark with no flash - but quite bright and shiny it is.
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Post by Steve »

I hereby assert my Constitutionally guaranteed right to remain ignorant. And this seems a good opportunity to plead with you to restrain from attributing every unidentified, NY-style reel to one of the Vom Hofes or "Conroy." There were other reelmakers in and around NYC in the late 19th century, but our common knowledge doesn't yet allow us to identify their products convincingly.

There's no question that JVH made a lot of reels. And there's no question that many unidentified reels have features similar to those on marked JVH reels. But given that "imitation...flattery", and if we allow for the possibility that JVH did not make every reel in the northeast, we can conclude that a reel may remain unidentified pending further discoveries.

Henry's rule-of-thumb about Malleson, whose reels we know too little about, is a good one. But Malleson wasn't the only mysterious maker of the period in that area, either. For example, check out the reels shown here:
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif ... /Mo/Mo.htm
They have features in common with each other and with marked JVH reels, but I find it hard to imagine that the JVH shop would have been equipped to produce the enormous variety of reels, in so many different styles, that we attribute to it.

In the long run, it will be more fun to admit we have unidentified reels in our collections, and maybe the itch to ID them will result in the additional research that we need so badly.

By the way--Thanks, Ed, but you were misinformed.
Image
St. Vernon
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julius vom hofe

Post by joe klaus »

Steve:

Whoaaa there.

I’m not sure who you’re directing your remarks to, and not even certain what prompted them. I doubt you intended to direct them to anyone in particular. But, me being one that’s rarely running low on verbiage, feels obliged to respond.

When I look at the multitude of variations of "marked" reels that Julius made, it doesn’t require any great leap of faith to believe he was capable of making all the reels pictured in this thread. Obviously, not every unknown was made by Julius. I didn’t get the impression that anyone on this thread had any thoughts along those lines. I know I don't.

If we assume we had lots of copy cats in those days (and I have no reason to think otherwise if you say so), then it's basically a huge waste of time to try to identify the maker of any early unmarked reel. One would never know when someone was copying and when they weren't. So I vow to rarely expend the effort in the future. It doesn't appear to be worth it.

I have opinions about origin of unmarked reels which I have in my collection, and normally arrive at those opinions by comparing the unmarked to a "substantial" (whatever that means) number of other "known" reels which I have in hand or otherwise available.

Actually, I arrive at my opinions based upon a multitude of factors, which are more often than not, too lengthy/complex to explain. I have neither the time or inclination to photograph every reel I have in my possession to try to "prove" something. I offer an opinion for fun. Take it or leave it. Either way is fine with me.

So far as Ed's reel is concerned---I don't have the foggiest idea who made it-----and never thought it was a big deal one way or the other---------but Julius Vom Hofe is probably as good a "guess" as anyone else. So far as the reel that I POSTED----it is Julius Vom Hofe. I suspect the other guys that posted their pictures likely have a reason (as I do) for calling their reels Julius. I don't know. Just know they're experienced collectors and have sense enough to get in out of the rain. I assume they have the ability to arrive at logical conclusions, same as me.

So, I vow not to call another reel without having it in my hand. But when I do have one in hand, I won’t hesitate to call it Vom Hofe if I have logical reason for so doing. I'm likely to be right more often than I'm wrong.
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Post by Steve »

Joe, my remarks were directed to everyone. We've all seen instances in which just about any HR + GS reel was "IDed" as a Vom Hofe, even though a more seasoned collector might recognize it as a Montague. The problem is that once any long-time collector calls it a "Vom Hofe," the reel usually gets traded around as such, regardless of its origin.

Yes, zillions of these mystery reels have features in common with known JVH reels, but many also have significant differences. I don't think it's useful to ID these things as Vom Hofes until we know more about the other, known makers' products--Malleson and Kopf, for example--that might have competed with JVH's stuff. Sure, let's point out the similarities to JVH products, but let's also hedge our bets by admitting there's a lot about NY reelmaking we don't know yet.

I don't understand how you inferred from my remarks that it wouldn't be worth expending the effort to ID each and every one of these things. My point was that we, myself included, should be expending MORE effort to find out as much as we can about as many lesser reelmakers as possible. Otherwise, these mystery reels will remain mysteries forever.
Steve
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Post by Ed Clark »

(SOLD) Controversial little reel isn't it. I know this is not the correct forum for selling or trading. All the information and pictures about the reel are located here so I will do it here and hopefully not upset anyone. I do not collect this type of reel - I only picked it up because it was quite beautiful and different. I will be taking offers for the reel or for trades of KY style reels, difficult or rare Hendryx's or hendryx boxes. If you would like to make an offer or have something to trade send me an email.

Thanks,
Ed

REEL IS NOW SOLD - THANKS, ED
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More information

Post by Ed Clark »

I picked up these 2 reels within the last week. This should clear up a couple of things - EXCEPT for who the maker is. Read below the pics.
Image
Image
Image
Image

Notice that reel #1 and reel #2 have the same design on the back plates, both have a hole in the piece of the spool that sticks out, both have the same method of securing the pillars with a cap, both have the same crank handles (reel#2 has a replacement crank retaining screw I believe). Reel #2 has a Terry like foot (Terry also has some reels with the same pillar retaining cap device - HEAR ME - I am not suggesting these are Terry). Enough about reel #2.

Reel #1 is identical in many ways to the original listed reel - (which now has a new owner). They have the same plates, foot, pillar securing device, crank nut, spool with hole in end, crank knob, and decorative design on the front plate cover, same 2 - 8 O'clock cover screws, and same 24/12 gears. In the original post of the initial reel - it had extra holes in the front plate - I think picture 3 will explain this - it is where the drag mounts and goes through the plate (where the red squares are). The black spot in picture 3 at 12 o'clock is not a hole - just a black spot. Maybe they made them all the same and used which ever versions they wanted without having to change the plate design for each one. I would conclude that reel #1 was most likely made by the same maker. Reel #2 I would guess was probably also. This is meant to be educational for everyone. My opinions are only that - MY OPINIONS! Both of these reels - as in the first - again have no makers name. Hopefully this may help in the long run to the discovery of the maker of the mystery reels. Any input appreciated.

Thanks,
Ed
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Post by Steve »

The slightly domed screw heads, the concentric-groove designs around the plate centers, the grooves around the headcap edge, the rounded pillar nuts, and (of course) the "Terry-like" foot all suggest Terry. (But is it a Terry foot or isn't it?) Which makes me wonder if the so-called pillar end "caps" on your original reel were really closed caps or rounded nuts. Did you remove any?

Disregarding Reel 1 for the moment, why wouldn't you suggest Terry if Reel 2 has a Terry foot?

We had a useful seminar on Terry last year in Allentown. Folks were able to see a surprising variety of reels attributed to the company.
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Post by Ed Clark »

Well - I took out the Terry's that I have - it really does not have a foot like Terry. They are bent up at the edges where it attaches to the plates. Reel #2 has a solid squared off block where it attaches. I think I was in error there.

I did take off the pillar end caps. They are hollow tubes that thread on to the pillar - you can see right through them. Then the ends were rounded off. I don't think it is possible that they were rounded off nuts. They were made that way and still heavily plated.

Ed
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Jim's reel

Post by reelsmith. »

Regarding Jim's Bi-Metal reel. I have had two of those over the years. One was a fly reel, but it was positively by the same maker. Both of them came out of Central Valley. I suspect strong Leonard ties with whomever made these reels.

Dean.
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