Reel ID help

[Jim Schottenham]

Dean,
Did Kosmic produce a square pillar reel similar to these?

[reelsmith.]

Okay... so I just went back and actually read this entire thread... instead of just looking at the pretty pictures. Man oh man... you guys are having some kind of fun !

For the record, I would like to ID the reel in Jim's post, as well as the one I pictured as "Not vom Hofe". No way, no how.

My guess is it was made by whoever was making Leonard's reels. Maybe Hiram himself made it, or Payne... I really don't know, except to say, it is not a vom Hofe.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I have stumbled onto a bunch of these over the years and most of them were found in the vicinity of the Leonard factory.

Dean.

[reelsmith.]

Hi Jim.

I just saw your question. I think you posted it as I was creating my last post.

Yes, Kosmic made a square pillar series, but I would not call them similar. They were made of hard rubber and nickel silver... in the "vom Hofe" style (sorry, couldn't resist). I think the models were number2d 925, 926 and 927.

I personally don't suspect a connection with the Bi-Metals we pictured, but maybe that's only because I haven't thought things through. There is a lot to be learned yet about Kosmic.

Dean.

[Steve]

Ed, when you mentioned "caps," I thought you meant something like a cap nut, closed at one end. The "rounded nuts" used on Terry and other reels are open at both ends, and the rounding refers to the fact that they're not hexagonal. In some cases, as on your reel, it looks as if the pillar end and nut are also rounded at the distal end, maybe plated afterward.

[Ed Clark]

Correct - they look that way. Rounded off on the tips and then plated. Anything else to add on Reel #1?

[SWIM JIG]

The use of round fastners, ie. those that are open on both ends is simple to explain! this was used by CLOCK MAKERS and Terry was a major Clock Maker in that time period. There are two schools of reasoning on these rounded (nuts) first some were originaly square or 6 sided, and after they were attched and adjusted, then they were filed round to stop the tampering of the CLOCKS thus forcing a owner to take it back to the mfg. or place selling the clocks, second after the fastners were put on and adj. the clock maker filed them round and generaly pinched the ends of the threaded shaft, reducing the posibility of the gen. publics blacksmith from working on the clock or in some cases the watches or another mfgs. from working on them. ( now some of you will say ( its easy to repair and replace the shaft and this nut, however they thought of this and if you take a very close look you will see that the shafts are not only threaded into the back side but are also soldered , yes thay were put in HOT! as for the bridges in these reels, take the back off a early watch, some were calleded bar watches, same method is used on reels! the solid brass and metal reels of pre and some post civil war reels used the bar bridge system. We must remember in that time frame most work was hand made and each individual reel , clock, watch, and other like items (firearms) are a real proof of this. As time went on (and we all can see it) the french and Italians were strong on its influence) the use of bi metals and other materials were incorperated. ( every van Hoff I have worked on, the bar has been nicly embelished,and all parts are quit perfect. I rarly ever see a out of place part or screw or anything except when someone else worked on them ie. blacksmith , gun smith, or whom ever with exception of a clock maker, they signed their work. People, I trust this will help clear up thes sometimes miths of whom made what and why! Col. milton lorens your Ohio conection aka SWIM JIG

[Reel Geezer]

Dean: I'd be interested in knowing how you identify a Kosmic fly and/or multiplier reel maker. I am only referring to the GS/HR versions with square pillar ends made in the 1890s and early 1900s. The advertising cuts used by US Net & Twine when they were making the Kosmic reels and the cuts used in the Montague catalogs are identical. I'm well aware that catalog cuts outlasted reel updates. I've only seen a couple of Kosmic fly reels and no multipliers, and the owners all claimed them to be made by Leonard, Payne, etc. How do you know that those reels are not Montague made?

[reelsmith.]

Those are some very good questions... I wish I had some concrete answers for you, but I don't.

I have always assumed that the "cheaper" Kosmic line of nickel-plated multipliers were Montague made and think that is a very safe assumption.

As for the better line of Kosmic reels, the nickel-silver and hard rubber ones, I have no idea who made those. Why not Montague? They were very capable of top-shelf work.

You no doubt know why sellers prefer to say they were made by Leonard and/or Payne... $$$$$$$$$$$$

Dean.

[Reel Geezer]

Personally, I don't believe that any "kosmic" reels were made by anyone other than Malleson (maybe), US Net & Twine Co and their successor Montague. I know that Kosmic reel owners don't want to admit to this (they might accept Malleson), but Montague certainly did make identical appearing reels to those called "Kosmic". The name Kosmic was trademarked by A. G. Spalding & Bros. when they started retailing "Kosmic" rods in March of 1890. Spalding apparently purchased the Brooklyn Malleson reel factory c1890. US Net & Twine purchased the building in 1894. Montague purchased the building in 1899. Most reel historians seem to believe that US Net & Twine manufactured Kosmic reels from 1894-1899. If Kosmic reels were made earlier (I have never seen a listing) they were most likely made in the Malleson/Spalding factory. I have noted catalogs after 1899 that list the identical reels as "Kosmic Pattern" reels. These were undoubtedly Montague reels and are probably not marked "The Kosmic Reel".

I agree that the nickel plated / hard rubber reels that are stamped "THE KOSMIC REEL" are Montagues, and they're from their cheaper line.

My question to anyone out there is how do you tell (if you can) who made a Kosmic reel? Probably not enough have been examined by the same people to discover if there are any differences.

In addition to the fly reel, both USN&T and Montague list the identical Kosmic multiplier (in both 2:1 and 4:1 gearing). It is a beauty with squared off raised pillars, and was available in 80 to 150 yard sizes. I'm sure that this reel is almost always identified as a Julius vom Hofe reel.

[Reel Geezer]

Steve and others: I'm confused about the "Terry Foot". Was that one piece foot with the bent ears always fastened to the plates, or was it also slipped on pillars which were then attached to the plates? Someone please enlighten me.

Now that I'm posted all kinds of messages up here, I'll get back to my fishing.

[Steve]

Geezer,
I know not what course others may take, but here's what I consider a "Terry foot":



As often as not, the 1871 patent date is stamped on the bottom. The brass is relatively thick, and the top edges of the upwardly bent flanges are curved to accomodate the spool flanges. The foot is held by either three or four screws, and there are frequently one or two reinforcing blocks inside the flanges to provide a bit more grab for the screws.

There have been lots of other reel feet with upwardly bent flanges, but they've been attached to pillars, as you indicated. The "one-pieceness" of the Terry foot implies that the pillars are unnecessary.

[joe klaus]

Hope this (following comment) doesn't get this thread off on a tangent, but I wish to add to a tid-bit mentioned by Phil above.

I'm as guilty as anyone concerning the belief that Montague=Cheap=Inferior. But that belief has been tempered a little over the last couple years.

I started accumulating Montague for the purpose of comparing them to pflueger and attempting to find an easy way to distinguish (outward appearance) a montague reel from a pflueger. (It's not simple).

I've accumulated a substantial number of montagues----certainly more than one hundred---and it's true that some are poor quality. But there are also some montagues that are fine pieces of equipment which compare favorably to any of the "famous" makers.

I think the Montague company had a very broad range of capablilities. And probably deserves to be held at least a slightly higher level of regard than they presently hold. But on the other hand, the present level of general disdain for the monties is good news for anyone that wants to collect them.