taking the faceplate off a perfect type fly reel

DrT · Post by **DrT** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:44 pm

Hello, I have an english fly reel I am trying to take apart and need some help. It is a copy of a hardy perfect RHW with many similarities to alex martin reels. The screw in the center of the faceplate comes out counter clockwise, and that is as far as I can get. I cannot budge anthing loose when twisting the spool and faceplate in either opposite direction. I thought I would get some marvel oil and soak it, but I need to know for sure which direction to try to twist the faceplate. I think counter clockwise would be the logical way, but do not want to seize it more. Any suggestions? Thank you.
Dennis

Ron Mc · Post by **Ron Mc** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:06 am

the faceplate-to-spool connection should be RH thread - at least on a normal RH wind reel (and most LH wind perfects, as well). And the thumbscrew is usually LH thread - sounds like you have that removed, but I'm surprised it came out counterclockwise? Is the reel LH wind or RH wind? With the thumbscrew removed, holding the spool backplate while you wind the winding plate counterclockwise should unwind the threads.
You might be able to get some WD 40 onto these threads down the sides of the spool opening beneath the thumbscrew. The threads are closer to the backplate, with the bushing/bearing at the frame mid-plate or winding plate side.
Got any photos?

DrT · Post by **DrT** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:31 pm

Hi Ron, The reel is right hand wind, similar to the perfect, but the screw is on the faceplate side, not the spool side. Any trade tricks, like heating the thread end on the faceplate or is that not a smart idea? I don't want to hurt the handle or anything else trying to disassemble it. It does sound in need of lube, and I really am curious to see the check.
Thanks for any help.
Dennis.
This shows the screw removed from the plate side center.

This is the spool side center.

DrT · Post by **DrT** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:50 pm

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:24 am

Looks as if you are supposed to pull the faceplate off the end of the shaft, not unscrew it.

Post by **john elder** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:38 am

Don't have personal knowledge of these, but it looks for all the world like that brass pin that's been dropped in there has the mission to prevent you from turning the faceplate either clockwise or counterclockwise with the screw out. Might that pin have been put in later to correct a loose spool?

Ron Mc · Post by **Ron Mc** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:38 am

I think our Guest may be right about Dr. T's reel.

The spindle may be be attached to the spool rather than the winding plate. In this case the pin looks like it keys the winding plate. The photo makes it look like the winding plate may slide on the key. The photo on the back side of the spool also makes the spindle look fairly solid in the spool (although it's not pinned).
I've never seen one like that, but it sure looks that way. Also, unless the winding plate slides off, there's no reason to put a thumbscrew there.
Rather than pulling on the winding plate, I think I would try pushing the spool out from the inside.
Keep us informed. This is interesting.

Any maker's marks on the reel?

John, pinning shaft spindles on alloy reels is typical. Here is the winding plate of an Alex Martin Thistle (Dingley). The shaft is pinned to the winding plate, and the thumbscrew is LH-thread on back side of the spool. (Also 3 smaller pins for the drag gear.)

And here's the spindle pin on the fixed backplate of a more conventional fly reel (J.W. Young).

Mr. Young was quite serious about fixing these things, BTW. The spindle and alloy base were threaded, the surfaces were tinned, the joint was drilled and pinned, then fused.

Ron Mc · Post by **Ron Mc** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:59 am

hey, I found one here with a winding plate thumbscrew (bid on it a few months ago and lost)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 7117815864
This is an Allcocks made by JW Young. The spindle is clearly pinned to the spool. Can't tell too much about the winding plate from the photos - can't tell if it's threaded or not.

DrT · Post by **DrT** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:03 pm

It finally came apart when I pushed from the inside of the spool. The p oil must have helped as I had halfheartedly attempted that before. This is my first perfect "character" reel that I have, and had just assumed it would twist apart like the real thing. I took notice of the key pins, but it did not soak in as to their significance in locking the shaft.
Alas, I don't think Dingley as I had hoped, but none the less a keeper. The check style and the non removable paws are very similar to the ones on a Allcock dup. and a Cogswell single check st. george type reels I have, though the tension adjustment setup is quite different than anything in my stable.

Stamp === Ogden Smiths == any knowlege who the maker is?

The real poser on the reel is that it has what is left of a handle cup on the spool to make this an ambi hand wind reel. What is left of the stud and cup do appear factory equip and install upon close examination.
Thank you all. Great forum.
Dennis

Ron Mc · Post by **Ron Mc** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:56 pm

I recognize the pawl springs and tensioning block. Your reel was made by J.W. Young (or more accurately, Sons). The hollow or drilled-through spindle is another characteristic. (I suspect your Cogswell is a Young reel also - compare the spindle to my Thornburn photo above.)

And duh, I just saw the fixed spindle pin in your spool back photo above. Oh, and here's the Thornburn innards:

hmmm...what can I trade you for that

I've seen several "conventional" (for lack of a better description) fly reels marked Ogden Smith and made by Young. I also have an Ogden Smith Whitchurch made by Dingley.

Drt · Post by **Drt** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:48 pm

Thank you Ron. I can't trade it. Too "new" a toy. Haven't even had a chance to play with it in the ice yet.
This reel must be from a different era then the youngs/allcocks/millwards/ reels I have archived. The springs are alike, but the adjustment knob and block are different, plus mine is an eunuch sans the ball bearings I've seen on others. I also have not seen a youngs with the serrations on the plate side rim. Of course I know that there are often many contradictions of the norm when it comes to older brit reels. That is part of the fun.
btw, the pape reel you have has many strong dingley characteristics, the handle, squared spindle bottom, and the brass nut affixing the clicker stand out the most. I have pictures of a walker bampton, carter, and eaton deller that all have the two screw block fixing the spring like on the pape. I think bampton is the only one of the three that made their own reels. (didn't dingley work for bampton for a time?)

To John, the guest, and Ron, my heartfelt thanks for the directions of attack in disassembling my reel. A tip of the hat!

Dennis

Ron Mc · Post by **Ron Mc** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:56 pm

enjoyed it immensely, Dennis.

BTW, the only other coined edges I've seen have been on Reuben Heaton reels, but I've never seen a click-pawl Heaton reel - not to say they didn't make any.

(Dingley was at Heaton, Slater, Hardy and Walkers, in that order.) There is an overlap there - Pape was out of business in 1914, and Dingley was at Walkers from 1911 to 1919. Thanks. Can you provide me photos of the Walker Bampton reel?

Ron Mc · Post by **Ron Mc** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:12 am

well, this made me pull out my Shakespeare 1900 Salmon & Trout Reel to check the spindle and winding plate attachments.

The spindle is fixed to the spool and the winding plate threads onto the spindle, RH threads, RH wind, no thumbscrew needed. Inside, it has the ball bearing and adjustable twin check cloned from the Perfect.

Dennis, maybe we should co-author an article on Perfect clones for the Reel News?

DrT · Post by **DrT** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:50 pm

Hi Ron,
Shakespeare had a nice idea with that reel.

I think I would have to pass on your offer to help with a write up for the Reel News. I know just enough to be dangerous. Heck, if I can't even get one apart, doesn't that say something?

All of the three reels I mentioned with the 2screw spring block are perfect types, but nonetheless show and share the same production or maker "style" as your pape. Here are links to the bampton:

http://www.myfishingpictures.com/img/047674.jpg
http://www.myfishingpictures.com/img/047675.jpg
http://www.myfishingpictures.com/img/047676.jpg
http://www.myfishingpictures.com/img/047677.jpg

btw, just thought you might like to see what I believe is one of the nicest reels D made . Do you have a usable spare spool for it?

http://www.myfishingpictures.com/img/047678.jpg

Dennis

Ron Mc · Post by **Ron Mc** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:15 pm

sorry about the spool - can't help you. Strong Slater influence in that reel.

Thanks for the Bampton photos. I had seen Dingley caliper perfects and not made the connection.

DrT · Post by **DrT** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:00 pm

I am sure I will have a long search for that spool.

I have run across a few reels of the same dia. but were too narrow, or had a different size spindle and gear. I have 3 other dingley's with the birdcage spool and caliper springs, but they all are of the 2screw through the spring type.
Dennis

taking the faceplate off a perfect type fly reel

taking the faceplate off a perfect type fly reel

the reel in ?

Doh THANKS!!!

allcock

pictures of 3.25 walker bampton perfect