Reel model(s) w/Disengaging Levelwind and Pinion via Kopf style bridge

[Tightlines666]

Recently an Alan Tani member posed the question as to...

What reel models or patented mechanisms exist whereby the pinion and the levelwind mechanisms disengage simultaneously via a Kopf-style bridge (i.e. the maingear rotates to disengage)?

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=20246.15

This one had me scratching my head, searching past ORCA posts, paging through my stack of old Reel News issues, and reading through Steve Vernon's book. I read alot of interesting stuff regarding the development of, and multiple approaches to, levelwind mechanisms, but I still couldn't pinpoint a reel that met these criteria. It may not be that significant, but it just bugged ne that I thought I saw a reel described that did this, yet couldn't remember where I may have read this!?

Still, it's the questioning that leads to learning.

Admittedly, early levelwinds are far from my area of specialty/interest.

Maybe Steve, or someone else has a better answer here?

John

[oc1]

Thank you again for bringing your resources to bear on this John. It is hard to believe that no one ever tried it. Maybe it was tried but was such a dismal failure that it was quickly dismissed.

We know that a modern disengaging levelwind can cast farther than a modern synchronized levelwind. But perhaps a disengaging levelwind was a disadvantage when using natural fiber lines. In use, linen and silk lines are thick, limp, soggy and cling to everything like a wet tee shirt. Line waterproofing did work very well in that era either. It is conceivable that a synchronized levelwind would always work better than a disengaging levelwind with the available lines. Depending on where the levelwind guide is when taken out of gear, the line has to come off the spool at an angle, rubbing on the adjacent wraps, then turn again as it rubs on the guide wire. It would be easy enough to test on a vintage baitcasting reel loaded with vintage line by casting with and then without the levelwind gear in place.

It seems disengaging levelwinds were never taken seriously until the Lew's Speed Spool and then the Shimano Bantam came along in the late 1970's. But, these reels were designed for monofilament line, had narrow spools (compared to vintage baitcasters) and the line guide was moved forward so the line came off the spool at less of an angle.
-steve

[Steve]

Mark Palmer's 1860 reel included a lever that disengaged the levelwind for casting.

Combining a "Kopf-style" freespool clutch with a disengaging LW would require disengaging the main gear from both the spool pinion and LW drive gear simultaneously, then reengaging 3 gears simultaneously for retrieve. Not a great idea.

[Tightlines666]

Thanks for the comments and knowledge share guys!

I have to agree with Dr. Vernon's comment...

"Not a great idea."

Just seems to me like someone would have at least tried it.

The progression of levelwind, synchronized levelwind mechanisms, and disengaging mechanisms is fishing reels is an interesting study.

John

[Steve]

Got one! This little gem has a 4-gear train and an atypical LW, but it does combine a Kopf-style clutch with a disengagable LW.

Lucien Verbeke, the inventor, was a tool designer in the L.A. area. The number of these reels in collections is an indicator of their commercial success.

[oc1]

Thank you very much for this. Do such reels really exist or were you being facetious about the commercial success? Make and model numbers?
-steve

[Steve]

Do such reels really exist or were you being facetious about the commercial success?

"Facetious" is my middle name. (That number I referred to is probably zero.) But when it comes to cases like this, I believe that anyone who has gone to the trouble and expense of designing and patenting a reel almost certainly has attempted to get it marketed, whether by selling the rights, contracting for its manufacture, or whatever. That doesn't mean necessarily that it reaches the market.

I would be surprised if Verbeke's reel ever made it into production. By 1949, when Verbeke applied for his patent, the idea of having to reengage those gears for retrieve was pretty much out of favor. Was anyone using Kopf-style clutches then? And his LW was really too bizarre for a knowledgeable reel salesman to feel it would appeal to fishermen. IMHO, the reel was probably DOA at the machine shop.

All that being said, a lot of us old-timers have sometimes run across weird reels that no one would have believed were manufactured.

[Wayne B.]

Maybe I am off topic with this suggestion, but look at the Ambassadeur Mag V. This reel has the unique (at least to me) feature where the level wind guides separate to allow casting. The two guides of the line guide separate when casting and join on retrieve so there is minimal drag in competition with the free spool.

Here's one on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Abu-Garcia-Amba ... xy0zhTLcJ9

I had one years ago and wish I still had it. You need your Rolex watch repair procedures in order when trying to repair this one. Theoretically a great design for surf casting, but did't like the saltwater in its innerds!

[Steve]

Wayne, Paul M. described an Arjon with a similar LW (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19641). Seeing that ABU was a relief to me, because I remembered seeing a reel at Kmart many years ago with a separating LW, and I knew it wasn't an Arjon, but I couldn't remember what it was. Thx.

[Tightlines666]

The evolution of the levelwind mechanisms and all the weird, wonderful, and overly complicated design approaches is a fascinating area of study. It seems like one can almost gain a unique insight into the mind of the creator.

Thanks for all the replys!

[oc1]

That's what I was afraid of Steve. I was so excited that I didn't look at the patent close enough and missed the date. By '49 the yoke and ramps were firmly entrenched with no turning back.

I think there was also a Daiwa with LW wires that separated.
-steve