Is this reel a late model Holzmann or early model Perez?

[RonG]

The first reel is unmarked and shows no sign of a maker's stamp. The second reel has Holzmann stamp in the hard rubber on the back plate. I would like to get your opinion please.

Unmarked reel in question:




Marked Holzmann reel:

[Steve]

For what it's worth, I've never seen a marked Holzmann with a star drag. Others may have. Holzmann died when the only star drags I'm aware of were on VH reels.

[RonG]

This may be the tie in between Holzmann and Julius. The photo is of a fellow collector's Holzmann reel. It has the JVH 1911 patent. Holzmann died in 1918 so it's possible he was incorporating JVH star drag on his last reels. Who knows for sure.

[Reeltyme]

Although externally they appear the same, the spool on my Perez is quite different than the reel you show. I am sure that designs changed over time, but there is still quite a difference. Hope this helps and good luck.

[Steve]

Neither of JVH's 1911 patents had anything to do with a star drag. I wonder if someone retrofitted a star drag on the Holzmann, using a B/Ocean star wheel. Even Holzmann could have done it. It would be useful to see the reels guts.

[RonG]

I don't have the Holzmann, but here's the inside of the other reel.

[john elder]

I recently cleaned up an identical reel to yours, Ron, owned by Jay White. I posed the exact same question since the reel was unmarked...early Perez or late Holzmann? I think Steve's point about he timing on the star drag does point to early Perez. It's supposition on my part, but I always thought that Perez must have scored the remains of the Holzmann reelmaking business and thus used up parts that were available before getting into his own manufacturing. In particular, as mentioned already, that is a very Holzmannian spool on that reel and on the one below...not to be found on the later Perez reels.

Pics below show the drag stack, which offer no clues to me, since it's pretty standard form, but maybe someone else will have more thoughts. The poor reel had a pretty hard life, but all was well in the end:




Ah, that's better!

[RonG]

John, They do look to be the same. Did it have a spring loaded pinion gear? Mine does. The Holzmann "Surf King" reels I have photos of also have the spring loaded pinion gear. They are larger reels than the unknown reel, but they also have the concentric rings in the spool bells. The unknown reel and Jay's reel also have a raised area on top of the foot to attach the foot pillars. This is identical to the Holzmann tournament reel. There are a lot of similarities and it would be nice to know for sure how Perez and Holzmann got together. Below are photos of "Surf King" reels.

[john elder]

I believe thats the spring you mean in my figure 4? I was just reading that article in your other perez post. They are ready to give frank credit for the syar drag so not sure how much we will learn from there. Interesting read, nonetheless. We gotta find the rest of it!

[RonG]

Hey John, the coiled spring I'm referring to is behind the pinion gear on the spool shaft. It's not really noticeable unless you pull off the pinion gear. The unknown reel and the two "Surf King" reels have this spring.

[john elder]

aaaah!...you mean THAT pinion gear! I was calling it a spindle gear....at any rate, yes indeed...spring-loaded, although the poor thing was stuck tight when it arrived...a little heat, followed by an ice cube and off it came:

[Jay White]

Steve, The reel with the drag is mine. it looks right as rain!

[Steve]

Jay, you mean the marked H reel with the star, right? Why would either H or P have used a star wheel with the JVH patent date, unless it was a prototype or a retrofit? As JE suggested:

...Perez must have scored the remains of the Holzmann reelmaking business and thus used up parts that were available before getting into his own manufacturing.

Either way, the original question remains unanswered.

[Nick in NY]

Ron, your reels an early Perez. Sorry for the disappointment though it is a good reel. Tight lines Nick

[Nick in NY]

Also want to add it was probably assembled with parts remaining from Holzman. Nick