Greetings all. Great forum!
My name is Sean Woodburn. I am doing some research on Primo. I see from some of the posts that there is a wealth of knowlege in this community and if anyone cares to write or call I would appreciate it!
On another note: I am organizing a casting club in Bend Oregon with the idea of spreading the long casting culture back west where once we were Kings..anyone who is interested should contact me!
Best Regards,
Sean Woodburn
Bend Oregon
541 771 2988
Primo Livenais
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spey_chucker
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Sean
Primo
Hi Reels,
This post is about my other love, surf casting.
August "Primo" Livenais was a west coast surf caster who made an amazing cast of 810'5" in 1955...I think. He probably cast over 900' in practice which would make him competitve...very competitive even today.
Interesting thing is that those casts were made with cane rods built by Lou Stoner(the ston in WinSTON). They were almost certainly hollow built.
I will know that for sure or not by the end of the day.
If you put Primo's name in the search here you will find some very interesting posts by members. More info than I havew found anywhere so I am appealing to the membership to share what they know. Current US record now stands at 839.25 ft. by Tommy Farmer earlier this year.
Best records that I could find show that only four other US casters have cast over 800'. and those all in the last four years with amazingly high tech British built tournament rods and highly modified reels. Of course Primo's gear was similarly high tech for his day...but cane? wow..
If you are not familiar with tournament surf casting it is dominated bt the Brits who have a number of guys throwing ovr 800'. A Belgian, Danny Moeskops is top dog however. Seems unbeatable in all weight classes. He cast 125grams 278.96 meters last August. Roughly 910 feet!
Best Regards,
Sean Woodburn
This post is about my other love, surf casting.
August "Primo" Livenais was a west coast surf caster who made an amazing cast of 810'5" in 1955...I think. He probably cast over 900' in practice which would make him competitve...very competitive even today.
Interesting thing is that those casts were made with cane rods built by Lou Stoner(the ston in WinSTON). They were almost certainly hollow built.
I will know that for sure or not by the end of the day.
If you put Primo's name in the search here you will find some very interesting posts by members. More info than I havew found anywhere so I am appealing to the membership to share what they know. Current US record now stands at 839.25 ft. by Tommy Farmer earlier this year.
Best records that I could find show that only four other US casters have cast over 800'. and those all in the last four years with amazingly high tech British built tournament rods and highly modified reels. Of course Primo's gear was similarly high tech for his day...but cane? wow..
If you are not familiar with tournament surf casting it is dominated bt the Brits who have a number of guys throwing ovr 800'. A Belgian, Danny Moeskops is top dog however. Seems unbeatable in all weight classes. He cast 125grams 278.96 meters last August. Roughly 910 feet!
Best Regards,
Sean Woodburn
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Harvey
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Chucker,
I have looked for information about 'Primo" for over a year and there isn't much to be had. I was in contact with a fellow in England that stated he had read somewhere that he threw a 4oz casting weight over 1000 ft on an exhibition. I also have researched the reel that he used. He first started with a Pflueger Par and then switched to the Dalmo. Contact me if you want to know what I know. And Jack, Those Tournament reels that I had in Columbia in a modifacation of what he used.. Remember?
We had a demonstration by an x-champion at our convention and with out any practice, he threw a weight over 700 feet. If you hang around this board, someone will tell you how to get in touch with him. Pictures of him and his cast are elsewhere on the board. Look for "Columbia Pictures".
harvey
I have looked for information about 'Primo" for over a year and there isn't much to be had. I was in contact with a fellow in England that stated he had read somewhere that he threw a 4oz casting weight over 1000 ft on an exhibition. I also have researched the reel that he used. He first started with a Pflueger Par and then switched to the Dalmo. Contact me if you want to know what I know. And Jack, Those Tournament reels that I had in Columbia in a modifacation of what he used.. Remember?
We had a demonstration by an x-champion at our convention and with out any practice, he threw a weight over 700 feet. If you hang around this board, someone will tell you how to get in touch with him. Pictures of him and his cast are elsewhere on the board. Look for "Columbia Pictures".
harvey
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spey_chucker
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Primo
Thanks Harvey,
I think I made some contacts this week that will be of help. Found an old guy that may have know Primo. Also some older club members. I have know Geln Brackett at Winston since I was a kid. I have a message into him for info about the rod. Another interesting fact. Steve Rajeff has held the record for Single Hand Fly Distance since the early '80s. He beat his Jon Tarantino's record of 183 feet by another 4 for 187 feet. Jon made his cast with a hollow built cane rod also built by Stoner...interesting stuff...
Best Regards,
Sean Woodburn
Bend Oregon
I think I made some contacts this week that will be of help. Found an old guy that may have know Primo. Also some older club members. I have know Geln Brackett at Winston since I was a kid. I have a message into him for info about the rod. Another interesting fact. Steve Rajeff has held the record for Single Hand Fly Distance since the early '80s. He beat his Jon Tarantino's record of 183 feet by another 4 for 187 feet. Jon made his cast with a hollow built cane rod also built by Stoner...interesting stuff...
Best Regards,
Sean Woodburn
Bend Oregon
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Reel Geezer
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Sean: as you have undoubtedly seen in past posts, I wrote an article about Primo for the Reel News about 10 years ago. There wasn't a lot of unknown information, as most of the details had been published in one of the outdoor magazines in the 1940s.
Jack: your geezeritus is showing. You should remember we had a discussion about Primo several months ago.
Jack: your geezeritus is showing. You should remember we had a discussion about Primo several months ago.
MORE information wanted
Phil, I think what Harvey meant is that your article and the original information from Harlan Major's Saltwater fishing tackle only prompted us to want more information! Like, what happened to Primo, where did he live, what did he do for a living, did he really go to England and fling a lead 1,000 feet and most importantly, what happened to his tackle!
Spey, Lou McEachern treated us to a little exhibition and introduction to longcasting this past May at our National Convention in West Columbia, TX.
Spey, Lou McEachern treated us to a little exhibition and introduction to longcasting this past May at our National Convention in West Columbia, TX.
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spey_chucker
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Primo and Lou
"Big Lou" as you know is one of the four guys other than Primo who passed the 800 foot mark. He currently holds the 150 gram record of 821.67 feet. Although aware of him for years I only recently made his acquaintance online. I hope to meet him later this summer at Padre Island.
Regards,
Sean
Regards,
Sean
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Guest
Over 800ft
Hey Sean, you need a little more research, two casters broke the 800 ft in 1990 with .35 mm line and 150 gm weights. That is 12 yrs before the next.
And I believe there has only been 4 total over the magic number( in USA) and two of these when line was reduced to .28mm and 125 gram. Tommy may have also broke the 800 ft barrier with 150 gr but still with lighter line.
The weight of line makes a world of difference. And to only recognize the distance ?
Mo Davenport of Florida, 1958 set an American record using a 4 oz weight a hook that had a small cork (to simulate bait) braided line (I think 15lb, not sure, I know it was not light) 11 ft rod (glass) and penn casting reel to cast 450 + ft.
If , I am not mistaken, Primo did all his big cast with very light line. (correct me if I am wrong)
In 1985? Neil McKellow cast 150g .35 mm ,843 ft, it was many years before anyone came close.
If you haven't contacted Neil,he has a vast knowledge of the happenings in casting thru the last 1/4 century.
I personally have cast over 870 ft not during a tournament or with regulation tackle, so, it is not offical.
Did Primo do all his record setting cast in tournament conditions?
Or did he do the cast in practice? exibitions? What were the circumstances?
There are several casters that could cast over 1000 ft if you left them to expieriment. And maybe even reach 1200 ft.
And this is in no way trying to take away from what anyone did, just understand, that distance alone does not dictate the best caster. Unless
a strict set of rules are followed.
And with our ever changing world,rules will be forever changing.
see ya Big Lou
And I believe there has only been 4 total over the magic number( in USA) and two of these when line was reduced to .28mm and 125 gram. Tommy may have also broke the 800 ft barrier with 150 gr but still with lighter line.
The weight of line makes a world of difference. And to only recognize the distance ?
Mo Davenport of Florida, 1958 set an American record using a 4 oz weight a hook that had a small cork (to simulate bait) braided line (I think 15lb, not sure, I know it was not light) 11 ft rod (glass) and penn casting reel to cast 450 + ft.
If , I am not mistaken, Primo did all his big cast with very light line. (correct me if I am wrong)
In 1985? Neil McKellow cast 150g .35 mm ,843 ft, it was many years before anyone came close.
If you haven't contacted Neil,he has a vast knowledge of the happenings in casting thru the last 1/4 century.
I personally have cast over 870 ft not during a tournament or with regulation tackle, so, it is not offical.
Did Primo do all his record setting cast in tournament conditions?
Or did he do the cast in practice? exibitions? What were the circumstances?
There are several casters that could cast over 1000 ft if you left them to expieriment. And maybe even reach 1200 ft.
And this is in no way trying to take away from what anyone did, just understand, that distance alone does not dictate the best caster. Unless
a strict set of rules are followed.
And with our ever changing world,rules will be forever changing.
see ya Big Lou
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spey_chucker
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Primo and Lou
Hey Lou,
Left a message on your machine last night. When I was refering to the other four casters I meant guys in the U.S. Those would be you, Tommy Farmer, Hector Hernandez and Rolland Johnson. To the best of my knowlege You and hector were the first after Primo. Those casts were 2001 long after Primo's 1955 cast. I have been writing so many people this week that I may have failed to mention that.You guys are pretty alone out here.
The questions you mentioned are exactly the ones I am asking. I was a member at one time of both the Oakland and Golden Gate clubs and am contacting some of the older guys there. I hope they shed some light. I think Conn might have some info too as he was doing quite a bit of research last year in putting together the 800 club.
By the way, I am Del's friend. I am currently developing a line of two handed fly rods for Nick. I Am hoping to meet you when I visit next month.
Best Regards,
Sean Woodburn
Left a message on your machine last night. When I was refering to the other four casters I meant guys in the U.S. Those would be you, Tommy Farmer, Hector Hernandez and Rolland Johnson. To the best of my knowlege You and hector were the first after Primo. Those casts were 2001 long after Primo's 1955 cast. I have been writing so many people this week that I may have failed to mention that.You guys are pretty alone out here.
The questions you mentioned are exactly the ones I am asking. I was a member at one time of both the Oakland and Golden Gate clubs and am contacting some of the older guys there. I hope they shed some light. I think Conn might have some info too as he was doing quite a bit of research last year in putting together the 800 club.
By the way, I am Del's friend. I am currently developing a line of two handed fly rods for Nick. I Am hoping to meet you when I visit next month.
Best Regards,
Sean Woodburn
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spey_chucker
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Sean needs to do allot more research
Just for anyone who is interested,
I had an amazing chat with Big Lou yesterday and he shed some light on some things. THANKS LOU! Almost more important than the fact that he and at least one other made 800' casts as early as 1990 is the fact that the records are just not intact.
As Lou points out in his post above, it is difficult even to evaluate casts because all of the conditions need to be known. All of the sanctioning bodies have very strict rules about equipment and in some cases even the weather conditions are taken into account. If any of you collectors out there have anything to share I would welcome any input whether it refers to Primo or any other caster who's accomplishments should be remembered.
Thanks,
Sean Woodburn
I had an amazing chat with Big Lou yesterday and he shed some light on some things. THANKS LOU! Almost more important than the fact that he and at least one other made 800' casts as early as 1990 is the fact that the records are just not intact.
As Lou points out in his post above, it is difficult even to evaluate casts because all of the conditions need to be known. All of the sanctioning bodies have very strict rules about equipment and in some cases even the weather conditions are taken into account. If any of you collectors out there have anything to share I would welcome any input whether it refers to Primo or any other caster who's accomplishments should be remembered.
Thanks,
Sean Woodburn
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peter thain
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primo's tackle...split cane tip, hickory butt rod, reel that ran on bushes not ball bearings with a replacement spool made by his dad on a lathe at work, line cuttyhunk, lead 4oz
for his 810ft cast he used the same cuttyhunk line but with a breaking strain of around 4lb
you can't even compare what he and others of that generation achieved to the casts made by current casters because the tackle is so different.
the GLOBAL influence primo has had on casting goes deeper than anyone realises and no matter what tackle he used it still took the rest of the casting world 30 years to catch up to the documented distances he has recorded in competition.
no one has equalled his track record.
for one man to remain at the top of his sport for at least 27 years almost undefeated throughout the entire time as well as holding a world record and increasing it continually over that same time span goes beyond mere words
we aren't even in the same league
peter thain
for his 810ft cast he used the same cuttyhunk line but with a breaking strain of around 4lb
you can't even compare what he and others of that generation achieved to the casts made by current casters because the tackle is so different.
the GLOBAL influence primo has had on casting goes deeper than anyone realises and no matter what tackle he used it still took the rest of the casting world 30 years to catch up to the documented distances he has recorded in competition.
no one has equalled his track record.
for one man to remain at the top of his sport for at least 27 years almost undefeated throughout the entire time as well as holding a world record and increasing it continually over that same time span goes beyond mere words
we aren't even in the same league
peter thain
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spey_chucker
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More Primo
Peter, Your reputation preceeds you!
Just so you know I am making it a personal quest to badger you a bit on plastic...
I just had quite a long chat with Glenn Brackett at winston. He has a record of the taper and will be sharing it shortly! For those who don't know, Glenn is a past owner of Winston and still works there supervising the contruction of cane rods. Even better however is that the company has an historian who has done considerable research and has some information on Primo. I am excited to say the least and will be sharing what I find as it reveals...
Best Regards,
Sean Woodburn
Just so you know I am making it a personal quest to badger you a bit on plastic...
I just had quite a long chat with Glenn Brackett at winston. He has a record of the taper and will be sharing it shortly! For those who don't know, Glenn is a past owner of Winston and still works there supervising the contruction of cane rods. Even better however is that the company has an historian who has done considerable research and has some information on Primo. I am excited to say the least and will be sharing what I find as it reveals...
Best Regards,
Sean Woodburn