Let's see Tournament Modified or Competition reels

[colby sorrells]

ORCA members,
Let's see your tournament modified or competition reels. I'll start it off with these two:

Langley modified Target


Bill Burke Competition integral reel/handle


I'm trying to document the different makers of these casting tournament reels. Thanks for you help and photos.

Keepin' It Fun!

Colby

[colby sorrells]

Here's a couple more:
A sweet little modified Talbot once owned by Al Foss.



A early modified Meek


Show us some more.

Colby

[Jonathan P. Kring]

Out of 800 plus reels, I probably have none. I do have an old rod case from a tournament caster. Remember Frankfort? I did have an official casting plug but can't find it probably gave it away. If there is ever a competition for who paid the most for a worthless reel, I could probably take first prize.
hands down!

[colby sorrells]

Yes, I remember when you made the purchase. How about those tournament modified and competition reels folks? Show us some photos. Thanks. Colby

[Mike N]

Here are two from my collection, Colby:

[colby sorrells]

Mike,
Do you happen to know the maker of that first competition reel? Thanks for the post. Let's keep them coming folks. I'm sure there are plenty more out there. Colby

[kyreels]

Here is my J.A. Hulme Firearm Service - Tournament Reel - Daly City, CA. I picked this up from Henry at the 2017 National ORCA meet. This is definitely a west-coast reel, made for using on longer rods I assume, since the reel foot is 4.25", which will not fit on an east coast casting rod handle. I would love to see a rod this went on. It is freespool made for Spider Web line and tournament casting only. It is a unique style in my experience, in that the spool is larger and as you can see it has no side plates.



If anyone knows anything about J.A. Hulme Firearm Service, I would love to know. I researched on the net and did not find anything.

Update: Steve Vernon found this:

John Albert Hulme

born 11/30/1901 in California
Cabinetmaker, mechanic/machine worker, refrigeration engineer
died May 3, 1984

[colby sorrells]

Matt,
That Hulme competition reel is way cool. Have you tried to cast it? Maybe the People Research Master, Mr. Vernon can help find some history on Mr. Hulme. That's what makes this category of reel fun. Thanks for posting. How about some more folks?

Colby

[john elder]

Here are three tournament reels I have in my collection, a couple of which have modifications. The one on the left is pretty much factory, although that tournament handle was probably subbed in later...aluminum with light cork spool. The one in the middle is a Meek that has unseen modifications to the spool, involving the drilling of different sized holes in the aluminumn spool to lower weight and presumably alter the inertial properties during casting. On the right is a 1740 (ignore the handle) that has an interesting modification to one side plate...back plate is flattened on the front side, perhaps to allow better access to the spool by an index finger??

[colby sorrells]

John,
Thanks for posting your modified tournament casting reels. I've seen several with the tail plate like your reel. I've got to do some more research about that modification. The Meek just hurts me. Great reel. Thanks again for posting.

Colby

[Mike N]

Ok Colby, here are a few more. The Meek No.2 with the thumb break is a narrow spool as is the BF Meek No. 2 in the center of the group photo.

[kyreels]

Those are some great reels John and Mike.
Here are a few more from my tourney collection:
BF Meek and Sons #3, jeweled, alum spool ends, alum handle

Al Foss 3-25 easy control ultra narrow spool modified for Budd Zoellner, Louisville Tourney Caster


I think that the BFM&Sons had the alum spool factory option, but don't think that any of the Ky Reel makers actually made the tournament handles you typically see, whether 2-way or 3. Al Foss did make this tournament handle on this reels specifically for spider line casting.

The tournament handles really don't make sense (are not that useful and actually detract) on a freespool (which BFM&S did make), but think that the tournament casters used them on non-freespool and sometimes on freespool, I guess because they were available. The question for me is did they just cut the line off or did they take the trouble to reel those 300+ foot casts using those tiny handles?

If anyone ever sees a catalog option with a tournament handle from the classic handmade reel makers, it would be news to me.

[Mike N]

Matt- I’m blown away by that modified Al Foss. Wow.

Mike N

[oc1]

The idea behind tiny handles is that you can crank them faster when there is little tension on the line. I always bump my knuckles with the doubles but the counterbalanced ones are OK. The three knob handle is just weird. There was probably a coolness factor and tournament cult thing going on too.

I had never thought about fingering the spool from below John. When palming reels became vogue the tail plate was often shaved in the twelve o'clock to three o'clock area so it would fit in the hand better when retrieving.

I have a 1744 that had a tiny handle before I changed it and then fished the reel to death.



The side plate says model 31 and the 1744 is a 40 yard size.



... but the foot says model 26 and 100 yards. The 26 appears to have been struck through by a professional or at the factory.



It had the nice two-tone silk but it was not tied to the arbor. Just tied to a piece of string.



The spool had been drilled by the user but only drilled under the cork arbor. I wondered if the drilling was hidden for clandestine intent to make the reel appear to be stock. Drilling a spool out at the perimeter of the flange has a much greater impact on inertia. But, the drilled holes seem haphazard so perhaps it was done to improve dynamic balance (like spin balancing a tire) rather than for reducing weight and inertia. The little triangular holes appear to have been punched at the factory or at least by a professional. The triangle is bent inward to help secure the cork to the flange



-steve

[colby sorrells]

WOW!! Now we're talking!

Mike,
Wonderful Meek tournament reels. That little No.2 with the dime is crazy. Great reels.

Matt,
2 great modified reels plus the Zoellner story is a wonderful part of history.

Steve,
Thanks for taking the 1744 apart and showing the photos. Great little modified tournament casting reel!

Thank you all for sharing. Let's keep it going folks. I'm sure there are more modifications out there and many more competition reels.

Keepin' It Fun!

Colby

[Mike N]

The idea behind the short, three-grasp handle is what physicists call rotational inertia. Think of the figure skater who tucks his/her arms and a knee to spin faster.

For a given amount of torque applied to an object, its rotational inertia determines its rotational acceleration the smaller the rotational inertia, the bigger the rotational acceleration.

Here is an interesting link to the “physics of everyday things.” The rough estimate is that a figure skater with two arms out spins 2 revolutions per second, but with two arms and a knee tucked (rather like our short, three-grasp handle) a skater can spin up to 24 revolutions per second. http://www.bsharp.org/physics/spins

Now, that’s physics applied to tournament casting reels.

[Mike N]

Perhaps John E or Steve V or one of our other scientifically-inclined members can further elaborate on rotational inertia and/or explain the reasoning behind the large cork line arbors, magnesium flanges etc.

Mike N

[escharfie]

Mitchell SKISH Tournament, early 1970's ....

[john elder]

I couldn't find the old pics, so decided to unzip my Meek 3 again to show what's going on. First modification is addition of a hole in the face plate rim to facilitate easy oiling, presumably:


Next is shown the rather odd drill pattern in the spool that must change inertial properties of the spool....that Al spool is so light already, it seems unlikely to me that a little more weight loss would be worth the bother. Clicker is still functional, but drag has been removed:



Finally, the reel is signed on the inside and I assumed it was by the fellow that did the mods...but interestingly, it's not dated but rather shows the price of the work...or the reel!

[RonG]

Here are a couple Meek Tournament reels.

[colby sorrells]

Yes Sir!
Thanks for posting Ron. I'm especially glad to see that reel with the perforated spool. For me, it creates more questions than answers. Really glad it made this discussion.

escharfie
Thanks for posting the nifty Mitchell Skish reel.

John,
Thanks for "blowing up" your Meek 3. Makes me question whether that spool was that bad out of balance or if they were actually trying to make a "Thumper" reel with the intentional out-of-balance characteristics.

Fun stuff across the board. Let's keep them coming. And a big thanks to the ORCA members that continue to pay the bill for this wonderful website.

Colby

[oc1]

The Meek 3 confirms that drilling the spool was for dynamic balancing rather than weight reduction. The cork and wood arbors reduce weight, but they also throw off the balance because cork and balsa have dense areas and less dense areas.

I'm not sure I buy the skater analogy. The handles do not expand and contract as the reel spins. If the spool balance is correct, it should not matter if there is one counterbalanced, two opposing, or three opposing knobs. Three knobs can only be better if air resistance comes into play or there is a need for more weight. If three is noticeably better than two then why not four or five or foiled knobs? This relates to handle size though. The tiny handles would have a smaller moment of inertia. That is often, but not always, a good thing. It doesn't explain why you would put a tiny handle on a free spool reel though.

The cool thing about casting distance/performance is that there is no best design, only good trade-offs. The participant very quickly becomes bogged down in trade-off management. Then, when the human element changes through practice and experimentation the best trade-off shifts as well and it's a never ending process.
-steve

[Mike N]

Steve- fair enough about not buying into the “skater’s analogy.” I suppose a physicist could flesh it out. I’m a student of baseball and bat speed etc., and I realize theories vary.

However, I likewise have trouble agreeing with your earlier thought above that “The three knob handle is just weird. There was probably a coolness factor and tournament cult thing going on too.“

I have met a few of the old tournament casters and they always struck me as austere, mid-western practical types, not men and women who cared one iota about what was cool or cultish. Maybe today’s collectors add those after-market tri-grasp handles to make a reel cool, but those early distance casters were like top fuel and funny car drag racers and quickly abandoned anything that didn’t produce more speed in the real world and a trophy.

Mike N

[Alan Baracco]

Tournament Peeps,

In an effort to add to this thread I bring you "Frankie", a highly modified Langley Streamlite 310 for no other apparent reason than to win a casting event, the gut shots of all of the other really cool reels got me to thinking: this was the ultimate tournament reel!!









Keeping to fun, as Colby says!!

Alan

[colby sorrells]

Mike,
I think you are spot on and I like your analogy. If it didn't help it was quickly abandoned. And I agree that we collectors like things that look cool but don't necessarily have anything to do with making the reel perform better. One of the main reasons I've been trying to locate older books and magazine articles about tournament casting is to review the photos of tackle used during the day. So far of all of the articles and photos I've reviewed I can only think of maybe one that included a small handle on a tournament casting reel and I've got to re-check that photo to make sure. Most of the reel handles were the larger size found on the common Shakespeare (and other makers) reels of the day.

As a secondary "proof" of your idea, where the competition distance reels ended up was the integral reel/handle style reels used by our friend Bill Burke and even Steve Rajeff's ABU reel. They both have "normal" or large size handles not the small reel handles seen on so many reels today.

Were the tri-grasp reel handles made and used BEFORE the Jeffrey handle was introduced in 1946?

ORCA Reel News March 2016

Great discussion.

Let's keep those modified and competition tournament casting reel photos coming folks. There's more out there.

Colby