Penn fans, need reference help?

[Araye50]

Must have at least 50 vintage Penn reels now, but have not found the best websites or available books to learn about the intricacies of trying to determine dates of manufacture. Some of what I've read confirms that it can be a difficult task.

I'm curious about the dates certain of the crude fishing scenes appeared on clicker side plates. For instance, I've got several Senator 4/0 that have different images. Curious when Penn Fishing Tackle Mfg. Co. became Penn Reels. Still wonder if there was ever any ryhme or reason behind all the handle colors. Even when the 4/0 started being labled 113.

Do Penn fans have some favorite Penn history websites & books to recommend?

I have a smattering of Penn catalogs that I rely on & would like to acquire a rounder selection. My gem is from '38.

[SWIM JIG]

cool-thumb USA You may want to get the 2005 PENN CATALOGE, several of the first reels are shown ! go to ( www.pennreels.com/store.htm, ) or call (1-877-477-7200) also ask for the 2006 if its out yet! Your Ohio Conection on Lake ERIE Col. Milton Lorens aka SWIM JIG

[Harvey]

Ayare,
This may seem like a shameless plug but the ORCA Library has the following catalogues in the files. The Library isn't OFFICALLY open yet but drop me a line and I will explain how you can aquire copies of these. I would also like copies of any that you have and are not listed here.
Harvey


269 PENN 1950 34 PAGES #15 CATALOGUE
88 PENN MOD. "F" 1932 2 PAGES SCHEMATICS & PARTS
99 PENN REELS 1936 2 PAGES
98 PENN REELS 1982 46 PAGES 50th ANNIVERSARY CATALOG
255 PENN REELS 1989 67 PAGES SCHEMATICS
208 PENN REELS 1992 73 PAGES SCHEMATICS 70+ REELS
85 PENN REELS #10 1942 28 PAGES
239 PENN REELS #11 1944 32 PAGES
96 PENN REELS #14 1949 32 PAGES
205 PENN REELS #16 1951 27 PAGES
314 PENN REELS #18 29 PAGES
90 PENN REELS #20 1955/56 22 PAGES
261 PENN REELS #21 1957/58 32 PAGES
60 PENN REELS #23B ND 32 PAGES
61 PENN REELS #24B ND 32 PAGES
264 PENN REELS #25-B 1963 32 PAGES
238 PENN REELS #26A 1964 36 PAGES
97 PENN REELS #28 1967 35 PAGES
206 PENN REELS #28 1967 27 PAGES
203 PENN REELS #32-B 1969 18 PAGES
306 PENN REELS #33A 1970 32 PAGES
116 PENN REELS #34-B 1971/72 40 PAGES
125 PENN REELS #35-A 1973 31 PAGES
100 PENN REELS #36-B 1976 40 PAGES
129 PENN REELS #37-A 1975 32 PAGES
204 PENN REELS #38-B 1982 33 PAGES
207 PENN REELS #39-B 1983 33 PAGES
70 PENN REELS #40-B 1984 40 PAGES
117 PENN REELS #41-B 1986 32 PAGES
87 PENN REELS #6 1938 12 PAGES
300 PENN REELS #7 1939 37 PAGES
26 PENN REELS #8 1940 22 PAGES
319 PENN REELS #9 1941 27 PAGES
320 PENN REELS (SEARS) ND 3 PAGES

[Araye50]

Thanks, good to know ORCA has such a library, I emailed you on this. I'm mystified what the numbers mean in front of the word PENN throughout your list? Unfortunately it does not look like I have any ORCA does not have. Also, some of the key details are not exposed via the catalogs. For instance, I have not seen handle colors or those scenes from the clicker sideplates shown in the B&W catalogs. In the vintage catalogs I own between the late 30's & early 70's the images of reels appear to be drawings, some more stylized than others. The catalogs should clear up when Penn Fishing Tackle Mfg. Co. turned into Penn Reels, one of those key dates I'm looking for. 1936 is a key year, Senators were introduced.

[Harvey]

Ron and anybody else,
The number that appears before "PENN" is the Library file number. I posted this using the "cut & paste" method and that is why there is no seperation or headers.
Sorry,
"H"
And I e-mailed you back.

[Gabby]

I think there might be 4 of us now. I have dibs on being the treasurer

[Harvey]

Gabby,
From what I have heard, that position is still open. Before excepting the position, maybe you want to read the by-laws. Artical 2, section B, line 4 states that the Treasurer job is combined with the Secretarial position and while NOT attending meetings, "Said officer must wear a Mini-Skirt, Thong and 8" High Heels".
Just tryin' to help,
"H"

[Guest]

As far as I know there are no published reference materials other than the Penn catalogs, articles in the Reel News, and the Penn company web site. There are no collector type books on Penn reels. It would be great if someone would produce something like that. I remember when they used to laugh at me for collecting Penn.

[Phantom Fisher]

... to encourage Herb Henze (the son of Penn's founder Otto Henze) to write a book. I'd be delighted to forward a message from anyone else who would like to do the same.

[ak-fish]

I too collect Penn reels and would love to see a book on the company. I'd even help write it -- it'd be much more fun that writing economics books like I did in my former life as a college professor! -- if there was some way to acquire the information. Does anyone know what sort of archives Penn has at company headquarters?

[SWIM JIG]

cool-thumb USA to AK-FISH!and et-al, The first stop is to aquire a 2005 PENN catalog, on page 4 they explain the start of the company, and the condensing of mateial is well done from the first Penn reel , the MOD F and so forth!) next trip you need to take is in each of the cataloges or small catalogs pkg with the reel, it list the Centers PENN allowed to do their warrenty and sub repair work for them, Once you have those names and addreses it will be fairly eazy to get early material repair manuals etc! In the 2005 cat. there are 9 in Florida and most likly daves in holiday FL and Capt Harrys in miami will have repair manuals from the beginning! One item in my thoughts to collect are( side plates,) yup! the different colors, styles of decorations etc, , handles are most interesting, and then the gearing, early types are simlar to Von Hofs and definetly Ocean city! Most , not all dealers are in the business to make money so these Items are for sale, Ever see a blue plate, green , or marbleized plates simlar to (end Of DAY) work? A lot of us old duffers are slowing down, so these parts will end up never being used! As for factory manuals I quit counting at 2800 pages, and there are other repair shops that wont or dont have enough business to stock parts! ( In my feeble small brain , to write a decent book on PENN , or most any reel Company will be a very large undertaking, in Penns case I predict at least 2000 or more pages to cover every event or change! Will it be worth it? Very much so now that Penn was sold! Enjoy the work, or should I say pleasure! Will it be usefull? YES, about 25 or so years from now your work will most likly be the true record our decendents will have to go by! What is Lost? a lot of factory cataloges and repair notes when shops closed down an No one bought them out or took over the repair business! Your Ohio Conection on Lake Erie , Col. M. Lorens aka SWIM JIG

[Harvey]

For all of you "Penn'natics", (All six of you) I wouldn't think collecting the history of the company wouldn't be that big of a job. Now, putting it is print is another story. My first suggestion would get in touch with Gary Quick. The last time I talked to him, he was trying to put something together with the company to secure what they had. Gary still uses a pencil and paper and a hand crank telephone and is not on line so a phone call would be the way to go. (if you got his number) His address minus a telephone number is in the directory so you would have to write him a note. As for the newest catalogue, I have e-mailed the company twice and written them a letter begging for a couple copies, one for me and one for the Library bub have gotten no responce. Does anyone have an extra for the Library files?
"H"

[Bruce Davis]

Penn Guys
I have just talked to Mike Quinn who was with Penn Reel from 1942 and was Service Mgr for quite a few years I ask him about the handle colors and he said no ryme or reason just that was the color stock availble at the time and one German girl cut, shaped and drilled most of them.
I am not well versed on how to or what to ask but would be happy to ask Mike any questions you guys have.
As far as the 2005 cat goes I have one copy which has my name wrong.
Bruce Davis NFLCC ORCA Phila Pa

[Araye50]

The persistant question, when did the name change from Penn Fishing Tackle Mfg. Co. to PENN REELS is one of those starting points. Also, at some point the handles changed shape from the more pointy old style to the cylinder w/rounded ends. Would be nice to know when, even though handles are so routinely swapped out.

However my focus remains on decoding the crude scenes cast into the old sideplates. A nice starting primer would be an accounting for all the scenes that appeared on Senators.

[gadabout]

I have asked the question about handle knob colors before and although I was told that there is no correlation between the age and the handle color, I believe some generalizations can probably be made.

My guess is that the switch from the older football shaped knobs to the more cylindrical knobs came somewhere in the late 50's to early 60's time frame.

[Araye50]

Somebody told me they had found a book on Penn reels in a Book-A-Million store. There is nothing under Penn as a title or subject in their computer. I'm still finding it hard to believe nobody has published such a history yet.

2 key dates that should be easier to pin down are the last year for Penn Fishing Tackle Mfg. Co. & the year Senators started switching from 4/0 to 113.

[Harvey]

Ayare,
here is some answers.
In the 1936 catalogue the Senator is listed as numbers 9,12,15,18 and 24.
In the 1938 catalogue they weree listed with three numbers. ie: 111, 112,113, etc.
As for changing their name, I don't understand that question. On their web site they are still listed as the 'Penn Fishing Tackle Mfg.Company". In the earliest paper the Library has they are listed as "Penn" reels by PFTMC so what do you mean?
"H"

[fish collector NZ]

Hi guys, it's good to be able to show the wife this forum, so she can see that I am not the only one to have a passion for Penn reels. I too look forward to the day someone puts together a reference book on early Penn reels. I am a real Penn junkie and live in New Zealand so have found it very difficult accessing reference material.
I agree the Penn website history page is a good start, I also use another site www.scottsbt.com/abc-sbt.com that has good photos and parts diagrams of a lot of the more common models. I have a collection of a large range of Penn reels, but favour the very early models. I have found the only way to familiarise yourself with a lot of these early models is firstly to be lucky enough to purchase one of them , then completly stip it, drawing diagrams if neccessary then reassembling it.
My most prized posession is a Model F.

[Brian F.]

About 4 years ago, I met former member Les Christ at the Las Vegas NFLCC meet. He was a very serious Penn collector and had shown me a manuscript he was working on for a book on Penn reels. His work and research up until then seemed pretty substantial and he had contacts at Penn or through former workers, including some of the same mentioned here in this thread. Unfortunately, he passed away one or two years later and I never did hear about what happened to all of his research. I know that he was close to several Penn collectors in CA where he was from and have asked a couple about him but got no response. Maybe with some prodding from others, one of them may be willing to pick up where Les left off.

[Araye50]

Older Penn reels say Penn Fishing Tackle Mfg. Co. Phila, PA on them, cast into the side plate. At some date (mid '60s?) many Penns only show the PENN REELS on the side plates. I'm not sure if all models changed, or changed at once, but am asking when that change was phased in.

I'm not sure what you mean by the '36 cat lists Senator numbers 9, 12, 15, 18, & 24? Never saw those numbers. Any decoding to 4/0, 6/0, 9/0 etc? Are you saying those numbers appeared on the reels themselves, or just a cat number? Sometime during the period of the late '50s to early '60s Senators went from being labeled 4/0, 6/0, 9/0 etc, to the 113, 114, 115-again I'm talking about the markings cast into the side plate, only this time its the crankside label in question.

Simple dates like, when did the Peerless #9 become the 109? It is basically the same isn't it? Picked up another #9 for $2 at a yard sale. Ultimately it seems like Penn dropped the colorful old names & used numbers.

Catalogs have liabilities, the images of the reels are stylized drawings, not photos & I've yet to see any of the crude scenes in advertising.

I'm watching ebay for old Penn catalogs just the same, for the effort & expense as a begging nonmemeber, holding out for originals makes a lot of sense. Oddly, looking at Penn reels on ebay had never brought up Penn catalogs. I did have my interest peaked by a rundown of old issues of ORCA's newsletter, when I found several articles on Penn history listed. However I presumed you would likely have consulted these & recommended them if they answered my questions.

[Araye50]

NZ, good show, glad to hear somebody actually has a Penn F, or K model & appreciates it. Curious how it is marked? Does PFTMF Phila, PA appear on it? Does it simply say model F w/o any name or number? Is the clicker side plain or did they start with the scenes that early? The oldest Penn I've managed is a rough Seagate w/the most crass scene cast into the side plate. That is, if my guess at dates is correct. The Seagate says both PFTMC & PENN REELS!

Was it hard to find that Penn F model, or did it appear locally like a diamond in the rough?

[Brian F.]

..., for the effort & expense as a begging nonmemeber, ...

Bob, I take it from this that you are not a member but you may not know that the annual ORCA directory lists the types of reels or manufacturers that members are interested in. Unfortunately, many are not online so that may explain your lack of replies here. If you were to join, you'd get the directory, have instantly at least 25 new contacts with similar interest and possibly and end to your frustration of lack of information. And, the lack of information is what inspires a lot of members to contribute articles so you could very well answer your own questions by researching and sharing the info in an article.

Also, I think you'd also find that there are many more that would appreciate a Model F or K than you suspect. The new CEO of Penn found the reel featured in the 2005 Penn catalog through a request made right here on this board a couple of years ago.

[Harvey]

Smack my hand and take my 'Lookin" premit away. I am sorry! The Senator is listed as a #115 in the 1936 catalogue. Only one size and in either right or left hand. The #9, #12,etc is the line size with the yardage. listed below it. I guess I didn't look nor read far enough.
"H"

[Reel Geezer]

Araye50: There has been articles published about all those old Penn Reels in the Reel News. You sound like a serious collector who is interested in research and information. Why don't you join ORCA so you can get this information? You've got the questions and the answers are readily available from back issues and current members. I don't understand. You are only scratching the surface of the membership on this message board, with maybe 50 viewers willing to post out of the 900 members. You'll find out there are quite a few members with those old Penn's and a great many that appreciate them.

[fish collector NZ]

Greatings again from NZ
Hi Araye 50, with regards to information on my model F: it is stamped Fishing Tackle Mfg Co Philadelphia Pa Model F Patent Pend, PENN. It has dark brown side plates without any other sceans or writing, it has 3 space bars, one at the top of the reel, and one front and back spaced evenly between this one and the reel seat. This model does not have a anti reverse action, and the reel is put into free spool by pulling the handle outwards by about 1/4 inch. To re engage the spool the handle is pushed back in again. The click button is another distingushing feature, in that it is an unusual shape, modern reels have a dome shape clicker, older models have a flatter button with a thatched wafer pattern, while the model F, has a very rounded button that looks like the head of an old upolstry pin. On the inside of the side plates when the reel is dissasembled, there is a marking on the plates that look like a letter K inside a broken circle, my theory is that this marking is a trade mark of Kuhn and Jacob, who were a company that produced the moulds for making the side plates. I also have a Penn Sea Hawk reel, which was produced about a year later and looks identical to the Model F, apart from the stamp says Sea Hawk instead of Model F. I have been told Sea Hawks usually have the pull out handle action like my Model F, however my Sea Hawk has and additional spacer inside that prevents this from happening, the spacer looks original. When I remove this spacer it works exactly the same as the Model F. I would be interested to know if anyone else has seen a Sea Hawk with this variation, as I am almost certain it was a factory variation on the standard model. [/u]