Installing Langley Clicker Pawl

[Paul Roberts]

Colby was kind enough to send me two replacement clicker pawls for my Langley 310. Any advice on installing them?

It's held by a small rivet. (When I first looked at it I thought it was a tiny set screw -Wouldn't that be handy?) Do I carefully drill the rivet out? What is beneath the clicker toggle? How is it attached to the rivet? What tools will I need? Will a regular rivet gun do the job? Have I asked the right questions yet?

[john elder]

Please give us a couple pics so that we know what you are replacing and with which parts. I have some Langley rivets, so we shold be able to get you back together.

John

[Ron Mc]

you go John - looking forward to photos

[Paul Roberts]

Hi, John, and Ron.
It's a Langley 310KC with a click pawl that was terribly abused. Looks as though the previous owner had a habit of casting with the clicker engaged! Colby was kind enough to mail me a couple of replacement click pawls that look to be the correct ones. I'm at something of a loss as to how to replace the pawl. From what I've been able to read, it may not be easy(?).
Here's a photo:

[jgestar]

Short term, buy one of the Langley Streamcast parts reels that pop up on eBay. Replace the whole tail plate assembly. If you don't mind a color mismatch, you can use the tail plate from almost any Langley bait caster. Langley made several color variations (and width variations) of the same basic reels.

Long term, drill out the old rivet. While it is tempting to use a drill press, I would use a drill bit held in a pin vise. This is slow, but avoids the damage that can come from a drill bit grabbing. Second choice is to grind the rivet head off with a Dremel tool.


Tom

[Paul Roberts]

Thanks, Tom. That's a good idea. I'll probably fix this one as well. From what you describe, and the correct rivet, I think I can do it.

[john elder]

Paul, before you do anything else, take a file and push that steel back onto the tip of the click Pawl. Sometimes if you are careful you can rebuild most of the end of that tip and the original clicker will work probably as long as you will need it. If that doesn’t work well then do as suggested by Tom and drill that rivet out and I can send you rivets that should work for you

[Paul Roberts]

Sounds good. I'll give that a go. There is a little clicker left so that might actually get me by. Will follow up as to how it works. Thanks, Paul

[Paul Roberts]

Well... I gave it a shot. I drilled off the rivet flare at the pawl. And it appeared to be brass! It just crumbled away as I hand-drilled it. When the pawl was freed I flipped the plate over to see how the rivet was attached to the click knob. In retrospect, I could have looked at the parts list first. The click knob IS the rivet; It's all one piece. So, there is no way to replace the click pawl without having the correct part, a replacement click knob.

[Midway Tommy D]

In looking at the knob it appears to have at least one friction (tightening) slot. Can the brass center be drilled out, a round solid brass rod the correct diameter and long enough to get through the click pawl be inserted, squeeze the friction slot tight (add a little JB Weld if you don't think the rod will stay tight) and reinsert it through the side plate & press it into the pawl?

I almost bet the knob could have been punched out of the pawl once the brass was close to flush with it. You could leave a little brass stick through the pawl & peen it really close to flat, too.

I know, at least for me, I get a huge amount of satisfaction out of making or improvising unobtainable parts to save an old reel & put it back into service.

[john elder]

I agree with Tom that the rivet is likely press-fit into the button and could be drilled out to receive a new one. A non-original alternative would be to do what most of the early makers did and drill and tap straight through the middle of the button. You could then use a screw to hold the pawl and round off the end of the screw at the button tip.

[Paul Roberts]

I really enjoy improvising, too; Find it really satisfying.

I tried pulling the post out of the button. Looked at it through a hand lens to see if there were a seam. Since the entire button and post are brass, though, I suspected that it might be one piece. However, the rivet flare that held the pawl looked to be aluminum before I started drilling. As it is, the post fits snug in the pawls I received from John.

I like the ideas. I was batting around similar thoughts. Tom, I'm not sure the brass will peen? It appears to crumble easily. The drill and tap might, but I've never done that. I see that a jewelers tap set is not necessarily all that costly.

I may, however, check to see if I can get the part from Dick Janak. Should fit in a standard envelope. I'm curious what the entire part actually looks like. I may have to do something creative with that too. But maybe it's got a rivet end. At least I'll have more material to work with.

[jgestar]

Before you start drilling and tapping, what tools do you have on hand? That button is best drilled out on a small lathe, like a Sherline or Unimat. The part could be done on a drill press, but holding the button without causing additional damage will take some thought (chrome/nickel plating cracks if it is compressed). Hand holding a drill while holding the button in a vise is unlikely to end well.


Tom

[Paul Roberts]

Tom, I am at the extremes: a large drill press and a rotary hand drill (I used to gouge out the flare). I do have a set of jeweler's drill bits, down to #80 I believe. But, I see your point.

At this point, Dick has the replacement part, but, I'm not sure what it will look like, whether the post is still solid. A little confused as just what I drilled off. Again it looked like a standard aluminum rivet, but it became brass very quickly. The pawl still fits onto the knob, when the post is put through the side-plate, but the two are flush. Not much to work with. Wondering if the replacement part has a flare-able, peen-able, rivet end? Guess I should ask Dick.

[jgestar]

Wondering if the replacement part has a flare-able, peen-able, rivet end? Guess I should ask Dick.

The Streamcast/Lurecast/Target reel diagram from the Langley repair manual shows the click knob (part C) as a single piece. No additional rivets are shown, nor are any listed in the parts table. All the Langley casting reels used the same click knob, part no. 125C. Considering the parts were sent to repairmen without specialized training, I'm sure the part is ready to install with a peen-able end.

Do you have a way to peen the rivet if Dick Janak has the part?


Tom

[Paul Roberts]

The Streamcast/Lurecast/Target reel diagram from the Langley repair manual shows the click knob (part C) as a single piece. No additional rivets are shown, nor are any listed in the parts table. All the Langley casting reels used the same click knob, part no. 125C. Considering the parts were sent to repairmen without specialized training, I'm sure the part is ready to install with a peen-able end.

Do you have a way to peen the rivet if Dick Janak has the part?

Tom

Thank you for the image. I've been collecting them up.

Dick has the part, and he says it is ready to peen. I've not "peened" anything before, at least so small. I have some punches that I was thinking should work: a couple pointed to start things, and a round one hopefully to finish. John had sent me some appropriate-sized rivets so I have a few to practice with. Advice?

[jgestar]

I'm not sure I've riveted anything since junior high shop class. I would approach it the same way - a pointed punch to start and then a round or flat punch to finish. A polished surface to strike against.

Please take photos!


Tom

[Paul Roberts]

Will do.

[Paul Roberts]

Update: Received the click knob from Dick. It doesn't look like very rivet-like at the 'to-be-peened' end -no hole. The tiny rivets I have to practice with look like standard aluminum rivets with a hole.


Here are the punches I have that I expected to do the trick.


What do you make of this NOS Langley click knob? Any daring suggestions before I go at it with a hammer?

My thought is to put the knob side flat down against a piece of wood as an anvil, for starters; So that I don't just smash the knob. Then start tapping... and see what that rivet end does. If it starts to to open up, I'll replace the wood with something harder and finish.

Again, any daring suggestions before I go at it with a hammer?

[colby sorrells]

Paul,
I checked my spare parts and that pawl looks just like all of the examples I have in the spare parts kit. I think it is soft metal. If it does not work I've got you covered with another, no problem. Keepin' It Fun! Colby

[Paul Roberts]

Thanks, Colby. But... I did it! Here's what I did, with photo's:

-Practiced with a standard tiny rivet. It flared nicely.

-Needed the tail plate to lie flat, so I bored holes in a piece of pine board for the spool cap and click knob to recess into.

-Ready to start peening that click knob pin.

-Got it started with a pointed punch, then went to a 5/32" rounded one. But, I found that the wood was too soft, my peening driving the click knob into the wood, and the peened end through the hole in the clicker.

-So, I used a piece of sheet metal (a narrow scraper) and supported the tail plate with a piece of wood lath.

-The project had grown!

-The nipple on the round-end punch was too long and began to drive the peened end down through the clicker again. So I flattened the end of a common nail, and peened the end wide enough to hold the clicker in place.

-And it works -rather loudly. I also replaced the main gear and handle nut, as the threads for the handle nut were stripped when I bought the reel, with the handle held on with a large ugly nut. And another Streamlite received a handle from Dick, as well.

-I now have three well-functioning Streamlites.


Thanks to Colby Sorrells, John Elder, and Dick Janak for the parts, and the others who chimed in with advice and encouragement.

[john elder]