Winchester

[Paul M]

I had an interesting mail call today. A local collector friend found this U.S. made trade reel marked with the Croft "Champion" "c in triangle" logo as well as patent date Oct 12, 1920. The foot has an underlined yardage number "60".




Wm. Croft & Sons was a British outfit that established business in Toronto, Canada from about 1855. Their 1915 trade catalog showed a wide array of "Fancy Goods, Notions, Smallwares, Needles, [and you guessed it] Fishing Tackle". Over the years I have collected several reels with this " C in triangle mark" and have had several lures marked with the Croft name but this reel is a first for me.

Realizing the reel maker was related to Winchester from the underlined yardage mark I looked in Phil White's Winchester Fishing Tackle Collector's Guide and found it is identical to Winchester model #4256 . Since the reel is not marked Winchester, my assumption is that this specific reel was made by Horrocks-Ibbotson after H-I acquired the Winchester fishing tackle division around 1930. According to local tackle historian Ken Kerr, the Croft business ended in 1929/30 although it took several years for inventory to be sold and loose ends to be wrapped up. So the timing of this assumption fits. Croft & Sons in Canada was subsequently split into Direct Factory Sales (DFS) and Canada Needle & Fishing Tackle (CNFT).




The knurled thumb wheels are screws for quick take-down and are described in U.S. patent 1,355,695.



The handle is original but I didn’t notice it is soldered on without the nut . The (jewelled) rear bearing cap is also missing

Anyway it is an uncommon reel, IMHO, at least with these marks.

[Steve]

Realizing the reel maker was related to Winchester

The patent was assigned to Winchester. After serving in the army in France, the inventor became the Manufacturing Engineer in Winchester's Fishing Reel Department. The reel has shown up with both "Winchester" and "Armax" marks and possibly many others, including the Croft logo. IMHO, there's no reason to drag H-I into this.

[Paul M]

The reason for my assertion is that Don Champion and I had a discussion on Nov 16, 2016 about some AL&W Toronto marked reels I found with obvious Winchester design characteristics. He was emphatic that unless the reel is marked Winchester (or one of the known Winchester trade names (e.g. Armax) then it can't be called a Winchester. He directed me to read Doc Herr's 2005 article entitled "Winchester and the Fine Lines", which I did.

Don advised me about the H-I / Winchester company connections:

Horrocks-Ibbotson bought Yawman & Erbe Co. in 1909.
They bought the Rochester Reel Co. - Rochester, NY from H.J. Frost in 1923.
They bought the American Swiss Magneto Co. - Toledo. OH in 1926.
They bought Abbey & Imbrie in 1930. (Abbey & Imbrie had bought Andrew Clerk Co. In 1875)
They bought Winchester in 1931. (Winchester had bought Andrew B. Hendryx Co. in 1920)

In the very beginning Winchester did make a few Hendryx reels that were marked only Hendryx but the size was underlined on them. Winchester started this practice and H-I continued it after they bought Winchester. Other than that Winchester made only reels that were stamped Winchester, Armax, Crusader, A.G. Spaulding, or Thos. Wilson Co. All of these last five names had an alphabetical-numerical number stamped on the cover plate. Winchester also made reels marked Barney & Berry.
In one of the back issues of the REEL NEWS was an article by Doc. Herr called THE THIN LINE. It explains both Winchester and H-Is use of the underline.

He said there is a list of companies H-I acquired in one of their catalogs.

Coincidentally, H-I had a production facility in Grimsby, Ontario Canada but this reel is marked USA.

[kyreels]

Too bad about the solder, seems like a bit of locktite or gum would have done the trick. I can imagine the owner saying to themselves, "lets see you drop off again $*%#!!".

I remember when I first joined the NFLCC in the late 80's and was told, if the 60 is not underlined, it is Montague, if it is underlined, it is Winchester. Lot of reels back then changed hands as Winchester. Guess the research has advanced a bit since then.

[Paul Roberts]

Nifty. Would it be safe to say that the gear package is the Marhoff design?

[Steve]

Dr. Harold G. Herr, "Winchester and the Fine Line," ORCA Newsletter, Winter, 1995:

Originally the management of Winchester stated that they wanted all of their products marked and identified using their name, "Made in U.S.A.," numbers and other codes...In about the mid-1920s, because of financial pressures and decreased sales, work was solicited from the trade...Retail competitors stores refused to carry the marked Winchester or Hendryx name in their stock so Winchester management decided to produce some of their reels without any name...

Doc added a list of lined-numbered reels with various brand names, including a Canadian A.L.&W. one.
I have trouble believing that the Robertson-patented reels were so popular that they continued to be produced after H-I came into play a decade or so after the patent was issued.

[Paul M]

Thanks, Steve. I will read it again. It would have been great to hear the debate between Don, yourself and Dr. Herr. Don’t tell Canadian collectors these are really Winchester reels or I won’t be able to afford any more.

[john elder]

That glop of old solder will melt off fairly easily, Paul, and we can either find a replacement nut or duplicate what you need if you wish. ... or leave as is as a monument to “fishing field fixes”.
J