Brass reel question?

[bschat]

I am looking for information. On a a possible European Fly reel. I have found an other made from wood and brass. This one is palm size with no visible crown marks, stamps, manufacture proof marks, etc. I would like information to possible origin of manufacture, date of manufacture, or even value. Really any information would be nice. thanks in advance

[Mike N]

Interesting reel. Are you certain it’s brass because the photo looks like the reel got a nice post-WW II powder coat of military surplus drab green paint. Powder coating began in the late 1940s. I agree it’s possibly British (or French) but the back of the reel sure has some similarity in its construction to a Union Hardware “skeleton” fly reel like this first one:



Vs

[RonG]

Our Reel News Editor, Richard Lodge, wrote a book on Skeleton fly reels and should be able to help. You can see reel images online.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=skeleton+fly+ ... -474-f.jpg

[spadej1]

It’s not exact but it sure looks like a Shakespeare Winner to me. I’m no expert though! There is an exact match in this old post:


https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewto ... ner#p81840

[wrong99]

Our Reel News Editor, Richard Lodge, wrote a book on Skeleton fly reels and should be able to help. You can see reel images online.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=skeleton+fly+ ... -474-f.jpg

We have a "winner".

[Ron Mc]

It’s not exact but it sure looks like a Shakespeare Winner to me. I’m no expert though! There is an exact match in this old post:


https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewto ... ner#p81840

This is the reel I was thinking of when our OP posted on FFR.
Shakespeare yes, I couldn't identify the Winner model, and it's a tough subject to search.

[wrong99]

From Shakespeare's 1921 catalog.

[Ron Mc]

very nice Mark

[Mike N]

From Shakespeare's 1921 catalog.

Those old catalogs are great. Good job, Mark. The catalog notes its “black nickle” finish which I don’t recall seeing before.

Questions:

1. How is the “black” nickle finish made as opposed to a “silver” nickle finish?

2. Any idea why Shakespeare didn’t brand bschat’s reel?

3. The 1921 catalog doesn’t seem to give an option like the 1/2 shiny brass, 1/2 black nickle reel like the one shown in the photo in the duckduckgo link (“Comes only in the black…”)

[wrong99]

I'll check others years. Maybe it was a later, or earlier option. They might have produced many for the Trade, so they didn't mark the reels.
Mark

[Mike N]

Thanks, Mark. Very interesting. The Featherweight reel below in the catalog gave both options of nickle or black nickle.

“Black Nickel is electrolytic nickel plating with a secondary treatment to turn the surface black. This plating will provide corrosion resistance and maintain electrical conductivity while reducing reflectivity on the surface.”

https://www.pioneermetal.com/our-processes/plating/

[wrong99]

No mention of a brass spool in the 12 years the Winner was in production. Only black was offered. Maybe that brass spool had the finish removed at some point?

[Midway Tommy D]

So would that Shakespeare black finish be different than a japanned finish?

[Mike N]

So would that Shakespeare black finish be different than a japanned finish?

Another interesting question, Tom. Here is a great article from a guy that rehabs old working tools —like a Stanley wood plane— using a japanning technique. It even describes the mixture he uses.

“ Cold Mix Japanning Recipe: Add 2 parts linseed oil, 4 parts turpentine, and 4 parts asphaltum powder to your glass jar jar. ... Stir the mixture a bit and cover. Dissolve for 1-3 days.”




https://www.plane-dealer.com/single-pos ... hat-stuff-

What is asphaltum powder?
Gilsonite, also known as uintahite or asphaltum, is a bitumen-impregnated rock (asphaltite) mainly found in the Uintah Basin of Utah and Colorado, United States. ... Gilsonite in mass is a shiny, black substance similar in appearance to the mineral obsidian. It is brittle and can be easily crushed into a dark brown powder. Source: https://www.naturalpigments.com/gilsoni ... gment.html

[bschat]

I want to thank everyone for adding to my knowledge of the reel. I learned a lot, great job everyone.

[Eric J]

Late to this discussion but here is my Winner. I’ve never believed that Shakespeare made all of the reels they sold, and this is one that I’ve questioned. I also question the Featherweight and Kazoo. I think the Alamo is questionable too.
My two Winners have different knobs and click buttons.
They appear to be brass plated steel that has been black nickel plated.

[wrong99]

I don't recall any company that made a reel for Shakespeare. Rods, but not any reel I'm aware of.

[Ron Mc]

I have to agree with Mark, Shakespeare was putting their name on reels in the 19th century, and made reels for others.

My Alamo is All Shakespeare - no one else made a reel with the pillar layout.

[wrong99]

It was always my understanding that Shakespeare's "Kazoo" was also supplied to South Bend as the "St. Joe" and then resurfaced as the "Surprise" model in the late 30's, sold under the Kalamazoo Tackle brand.
Mark

[Eric J]

Shakespeare only made one reel model in the 19th century.
All I’m saying is that some of the early inexpensive reels (1910-1912 Precision included) just don’t look like Shakespeare products to me. I might be all wrong.
But that unmarked reel that is identical to the “Winner” makes me even more suspicious now. There are a few noticed differences. The unmarked reel has three rivets at the clicker spring instead of two, and the pinion (?) cover is different.
I can’t imagine Shakespeare investing in stamping/cutting/forming presses to make such cheap reels, but I can imagine them buying them.

[Mike N]

Late to this discussion but here is my Winner. I’ve never believed that Shakespeare made all of the reels they sold…

Well, there is evidence the early in the 1900’s (1910) Shakespeare was adding its name to various products made by others, so perhaps you’re on to something, Eric.

See the third full paragraph on numbered page 4 of this monograph:

https://cache.kzoo.edu/bitstream/handle ... sAllowed=y

[Eric J]

Did Shakespeare make this reel?

[wrong99]

Montague did. I see where you're going with this.

[Mike N]

Did Shakespeare make this reel?

1927 ad in an NASAC program for B&G which always seems to have been in VL&A’s shadow in Chicago:

[Teal]

The January 2010 Reel News has a detailed history of Bullard & Gormley and their trade reels.

-- Dr. Todd