rim drag lever
rim drag lever
Is there a time frame when these were being used on brass reels. Mike
Sorry for the lousy picture but it's a picture of a picture, the reel I have in question is alot like this one, all brass unmarked with a little arm with a ball on the end that is on the handle side of the reel, if you push if forward it acts as a drag. I'd seen the reel in a antique shop and was told it is from the 1880's, I'd like to find out if this is thru and get a rough value, they are asking $150 for it, thanks. Mike[/url]http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif? ... 842336.jpg
Mike:
Looks like New Your style Terry reel. Refer to plate in K White book 264-8747. Vintage Ct 1871. Value listed $500 (Mint). If material is German silver vs Brass, it would probably command a higher price. Don't know if the Terry reels were marked or not. Worth a close inspection.
There could also be other like this, but don't know where to find.
Dale.
Looks like New Your style Terry reel. Refer to plate in K White book 264-8747. Vintage Ct 1871. Value listed $500 (Mint). If material is German silver vs Brass, it would probably command a higher price. Don't know if the Terry reels were marked or not. Worth a close inspection.
There could also be other like this, but don't know where to find.
Dale.
if its all there , and drag works BUY IT!
cool-thumb USA Mike, take a very close look, if its all there and the drag works, the screws apear to be hand made, the foot is soldered on and the front cover apears to be one pice when in reality its two pices solderd together, measures 1&3/4 from headplate to tail plate, and 2&3/16ths outside to outside of the tail plate, foot is 2&5/8ths long by 5/8ths wide, and the pillers are thraded into the tail plate, you best buy it! These are hand made brass reels that were in my studies ( student reels) a item made in watch makers and clock makers schools , before the students went on to smaller items. The spool may have a hole put thru it to tie the line on , generaly on the tail sidemost of mine have a singnal wooden knob on a brass handle . and not counter balanced. the gears will be stright teeth, on the inside of the head plate the pillers will have a colar on them and the piller will be thraeded and pinched off. The shaft the main gear sets on is steel, untreated. The drag bar or spring bar is hardend brass. the back plate or tail plate has a very small hole in the indentaion wher the spool rides that can be oiled! If the reel works without bind ups or gear teeth jumps and isnot battered up, the buy it your ohio conection on Lake erie col. M. lorens aka SWIM JIG Dale you saw mine at Dawajiac nationals! in Michigan
Ah, okay...
Does anybody know more about the drag mechanism? Seems that this reel cancels the previously held contention that Fin-Nor was the first lever-drag reel. (which they did in the 1930-odds, if I recall correctly)
If that drawbar (which I sort of presume it to be) tightens a band around the spool rim, then the drag would also be engaged upon retrieval of line, unless there were some sort of one-way mechanism inbetween. Which would also be unique.
Sorry I can't help you with more info, Mike. More questions than answers.
Doc.
Does anybody know more about the drag mechanism? Seems that this reel cancels the previously held contention that Fin-Nor was the first lever-drag reel. (which they did in the 1930-odds, if I recall correctly)
If that drawbar (which I sort of presume it to be) tightens a band around the spool rim, then the drag would also be engaged upon retrieval of line, unless there were some sort of one-way mechanism inbetween. Which would also be unique.
Sorry I can't help you with more info, Mike. More questions than answers.
Doc.
works like a interanl pfluger drag ONLY!
cool-thumb USA Dr rob, its a pice of brass hardended that is controled by the round knob , the brass is hardend and acts like a spring, not much adj, its basicly on-off, the small parts rides against the inside of the spool like pflugers use (ie pfluger uses a spring on a pice of macarda. and has much more adj, The reel we are talking about is on-off and when released line goes out, when on the reel wont let line out and is hard to reel in. If I ever learn how to put pics on the site, I will show the method! I belive Ed Clark had a pic of this type of drag on the site once! your Ohio Conection On Lake erie Col. M. lorens aka SWIM JIG Doc, I always thought of these as a stop latch and not so much as a drag mechanism. You might check Steve V's Antique Fishing Reels.Dr. Rob wrote:Ah, okay...
Does anybody know more about the drag mechanism? Seems that this reel cancels the previously held contention that Fin-Nor was the first lever-drag reel. (which they did in the 1930-odds, if I recall correctly)...
early drag or STOP?
cool-thumb USA Most likly the first reel mfg to use this was J&C Snyder or that was made public, Brian, you a correct that they were originaly off on stops, however someone along the way must have decided that instantstop broke line! after all early line was SILK? So then the progresive drag was made by using hardened brass that had a spring like tension that caused the (hump)on the end to rub aginst the spool,like a modern day drag, ie. South Bend, Pfluger. etc. These reels that they made most likly pre civil war era. Once these ideas became usable then reels became more practical to use, beter line was made, advancement in metals was advanced, and presto! now we have some real nice reels! ( Hey are forfathers were not so dumb after all! Your ohio Conecton Col. M. Lorens aka SWIM JIG Well here are some pics of the reel, if they don't show up I can try again or email me and I can send them. The reel is about 2 1/8" across the sideplate also the side plate looks to be two pc. it is about 1 7/8" wide. the foot has been drilled out and there are no markings that I can see. When you puch the lever down it makes the handle hard to turn but it does turn and not just stop, the brass is almost black so it is hard for me to get a good picture. the foot is soldered to a bar that has screws holding it ti both sideplates, it looks like there are only four screws holding the whole thing together, two on one side that hold on the foot and two on the sideplate. Mike
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif?7757022
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif?7757022looks like one of mine!
cool-thumb USA , Mike, your reel almost to the demensions duplicqates one of mine! ( next thing you do is find a pice of styrefome, and place the screws in a numbered order so they go back in the same spot! get a decent fitting screw driver , turn the handle screw just a bit towards tightning then very easy start to back it out. carfuly eork the handle off the shaft which is part of the main drive gear, take out carefuly the 2 front cover srews and place them in a order to be returned to in the styrfome, gently lift the cover off so as to see how the pinion gear is on the spool, mark t so the thing goes on the same side in! Now see the other screws, as you take them out be certain to keep them in order! Best not take the pin out on the drag assembly, its soft brass, also note the threaded round nuts on the top pillers, they too should have a wire thru them for holding them to the pillers. This is how early clocks were made! carfuly remove the spool, check for rust on the steel pinion. The Holes in the foot are present onsome reels and not present on others, most likly to screw down the reel on the rod! To claen that aged black off , first use some pure mineral spirts to clean off the crud, also soak your parts in it to remove the hardened greese. Next get some (metal Glow)tm or SimacromeTM avalible at motery cycle shops or antique shops, with a soft rag Not paper towles start the tedious cleaning, when done the brass can be used for a mirror ! The woden handle clean off with a tooth brush and polmolive or dawn dish washing soap and a tooth brush. To lube , use marvel Oil and Zebco hot sauce on the gears, oil the screw threads, greese the pinion on the spool, after all is cleaned and lubed , re aseemble and you will have a nice usable reel! Your ohio Conection on Lake erie Col. M. Lorens aka SWIM JIG, date of reel? my thoughts 1862 to 1877 !( )
These so-called "drags" were flat springs, straight or curved, with one end attached to the headplate. The other end had an attached pin that extended through a hole in the headplate. If the pin rubbed against the spool flange, it was a "drag." If it popped through another hole in the spool flange, it was a "stop." The "default" position of the spring put pressure on the flange.
The inside end of the rim "lever" was usually a wedge that lifted the spring outward to move the pin away from the spool and relieve drag pressure. The wedge was shoved under the spring either by swiveling the rim lever or sliding it in. Later, sliding buttons accomplished the same thing. Even later, the springs had to be pushed inward, often by adjusting screws or sliding buttons, to apply drag pressure. In these cases, the "default" position of the spring applied no pressure.
Here's a pic of a typical spring brake, ca. 1885. The rim thingee just slides in or out, moving its wedged end under the pin-carrying end of the brake spring. Obviously, you could design a swiveling lever to do the same thing:
The Snyder reels had both stops and drags that worked this way, and these gizmos probably had been in use for decades before that. They were used in many reels by many makers well into the 1880s and maybe later, so it's a good bet they were used for over a century. The lever-operated drags on SW reels of the 20th century have no resemblance to these simple early devices.
The inside end of the rim "lever" was usually a wedge that lifted the spring outward to move the pin away from the spool and relieve drag pressure. The wedge was shoved under the spring either by swiveling the rim lever or sliding it in. Later, sliding buttons accomplished the same thing. Even later, the springs had to be pushed inward, often by adjusting screws or sliding buttons, to apply drag pressure. In these cases, the "default" position of the spring applied no pressure.
Here's a pic of a typical spring brake, ca. 1885. The rim thingee just slides in or out, moving its wedged end under the pin-carrying end of the brake spring. Obviously, you could design a swiveling lever to do the same thing:
The Snyder reels had both stops and drags that worked this way, and these gizmos probably had been in use for decades before that. They were used in many reels by many makers well into the 1880s and maybe later, so it's a good bet they were used for over a century. The lever-operated drags on SW reels of the 20th century have no resemblance to these simple early devices.
I've added a couple more pics. of the reel with the side plate off, there is a j shaped piece of brass with a pin on the inside of it, when the lever is pulled down it rides against the bar and the pin goes into a hole and rides on the spool? not sure as I cant see into it and I know if I try to take it apart any further I loose or break something for sure. Merv do you think this reel is made in the US or UK?. I'd like to thank everone for there help and input on this reel. Mike
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif?7757022
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif?7757022
Maybe the picture is here, if not you can cut and paste. Mike
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif?8653148
(edited by moderator: Mike, since this is a URL for a folder of pictures, you are correct that the "url" or link button should be used)
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif?8653148
(edited by moderator: Mike, since this is a URL for a folder of pictures, you are correct that the "url" or link button should be used)