Endicott-Wilson drags… to lube or not to lube!

[john elder]

I’m cleaning up a couple Endicott-Wilson reels that will be used for fishing (who knew?) and i’m trying to decide how to treat the drags. On these reels, neoprene(?) pads are pushed out against the spool from the inside to provide drag, with a lever on the face plate controlling drag pressure. It’s a neat mechanism where ball bearings push out against the plate, forcing them against the inner wall of the hollow spool journal. I’m wondering whether i should grease the drags or leave them dry. The last thing i want is for them to chatter, but also concerned that too much lube would leave the reel with less drag than intended. Thoughts? Experiences?

[Jonathan P. Kring]

If you don't know, who will? You are the expert on most everything. Mr Endicott or Johnson probably knew but they probably aren't speaking!!

[Steve]

Some thoughts

[john elder]

Thanks, Steve. I switched to grease drags a long time ago on all my BIg Game trolling reels and they all are disc-type drags… much smoother on HT 100 drags. These are totally different beasts, but same rules might apply:

[john elder]

Here is how the drag stack looks after cleaning and reinstall. Four ball bearings ( 2 per side) push out on the pads when pressure is applied to them by 2 other ball bearings, one on each end. The relative pressure on the back plate side is applied by an adjustable screw. The lever drag applies pressure from the face plate side:

[54bullseye]

So I guess you went with greasing the drags ?? Is it your reel John are you going to fish it ? JT

[john elder]

It belongs to SM and he will fish it in light line tournaments with the Tuna Club. I did not grease the pads, but did grease the ball bearings and the four normal thrust bearings. I’m just hoping he doesn’t get a lot of chatter… we shall see!

[54bullseye]

I did a little dissect of both the OTCO and the Endicott Wilson in this thread. I chose the Endicott's drag over the OTCO JT
viewtopic.php?p=116837&hilit=Endicott+Wilson#p116837

[Dr. Rob]

Wow, thanks for the close-up internal look at these reels, John. I have long held an interest in them. It is great to hear that someone wants to actually use them!

Among other things, it was interesting to note that the sideplates appear to have been forged or cast, rather than machined.

About the brake pads, idunno about neoprene… being from Detroit, it would seem closer to hand to guess it is a molded friction material similar to those used in the auto industry, typically comprised of phenolic resin with additives of rubber, fiberglass, flakes of salt and pepper and whatever else was in the pantry at the time.

These materials don’t really absorb oil or grease much, so it should be possible for you to experiment a bit and try with / without grease and see what works best for you.

Having said that, it is worth considering how high of a temperature may be generated. One of very few lubricants able to withstand the high temperatures that can be generated by a fast-running fish with unchanged characteristics or viscosity is in fact Cal’s Universal drag grease.

Whups, my stop soon… gotta go!

PS: I am visiting Japan right now. It is super fun! This message was posted from a Shinkansen train whistling through the countryside going well over 220 mph

[Brian F.]

Whups, my stop soon… gotta go!

PS: I am visiting Japan right now. It is super fun! This message was posted from a Shinkansen train whistling through the countryside going well over 220 mph

Amazing that you can still think about reels while taking all that in!

[Dr. Rob]

Amazing that you can still think about reels while taking all that in!

Haha, I can think about reels at any time and any place, I promise you!
Only problem is, that we are so busy that it can take a day or two before I get a chance to reply.
I saw that you were here too; too bad we missed each other.
Japan is amazing in so many ways!

[m3040c]

I feel anything mechanical, that is affected by friction, is improved by lubrication. What I have found in my rebuilt user reels is quantity of lubrication becomes the key factor of whether you controlled the heat, while still maintaining the braking power. I have over lubed some of my own reels and found I cannot crank down on the drag effectively. Too much lube will cause excessive slippage.

So, in my opinion, whether to grease or not grease is not the question. The question is how much grease should be used and that is usually determined by experimentation. IMHO

[Steve]

So, in my opinion, whether to grease or not grease is not the question. The question is how much grease should be used and that is usually determined by experimentation. - our own Mike Cass

In a saltwater setup, I wouldn't even hesitate to grease the carbon washers. - Mike's Reel Repair, in the link I posted above.

The Mikes agree with each other.

[m3040c]

The Mikes agree with each other.

I love it when the Mike's agree. No further discussion is necessary...............

[Midway Tommy D]

So, in my opinion, whether to grease or not grease is not the question. The question is how much grease should be used and that is usually determined by experimentation. - our own Mike Cass

In a saltwater setup, I wouldn't even hesitate to grease the carbon washers. - Mike's Reel Repair, in the link I posted above.

The Mikes agree with each other.

Well, it's been widely known for a number of years now that CF drag washers last longer and seem to work much better with less overall wear and tear if they have a thin layer of grease on the surface. The jury is still out, to some, on whether or not some of the drag washer materials perform better with, or without grease, or even with oil. The many forms of Teflon drag washers are a good example. Many feel they work better dry while others say to lubricate them.

[Steve]

it should be possible for you to experiment a bit and try with / without grease and see what works best for you.

Dr. Rob, I wanted to quote you as well in my previous post, but it would have messed up the synchrony of quoting two Mikes. Rest assured...your vote counts!

[Dr. Rob]

Thank you Steve. I wish my name was Mike too…

*sniffle*

[m3040c]

Thank you Steve. I wish my name was Mike too…