Are older spincast reels touchier about mono line quality?

[Saluki]

One thing I've noticed about many old spincast reels is that they tend to get quite finicky about mono line with much use on it at all, where by comparison something like Chinese made Zebco 33 Platinum reels seem to be able to cast even fairly well used mono line, pretty much problem free, right up to the point where it needs to be changed out because it has lost significant strength..

I noticed this again, several evenings ago, with both my Johnson 150A, and my Abu 170 (Swedish made). One cast might be great and go the intended 75 feet, the next hangs at 7 feet. Then trying to pull line out by hand, there is all sorts of resistance. The Abu in particular has an oscillating spool, so, it should be laying line down on the spool very nicely and not have these problems! The line on the Abu is not old at all, either. Internals under the cover(s) are all clean. No pond gunk buildup, etc.

What I suspect is that this is a function of the line beginning to get a little old, twisty, and losing some of its surface smoothness, AND, light surface corrosion of the spool itself. The spool in my Abu 170 looks pretty good, but I think it may not be as "slick" as it once was. If I still had access to such, I'd consider getting the "line contact" surfaces of the spool chromed and see if that made a difference. I just pulled this sucker apart, and there is NO problem with line digging into previous layers. The line itself is only slightly twisty, too. The line on the Zebco 33 I took along last night is decidedly older and worse (somewhat twisty), but it never "hangs" when casting. The spool cover / spinner head in the Abu 170 is clean inside looks and feels great. The spool in the Johnson 150A definitely has a slightly rougher surface than the Abu. Other, internal surfaces under the spool cover are fine, and the line IS a bit twisty, even after being run out and rewound.

Note that the "twisty" line characteristic seems to be partially a function of the line being pulled hard and then released, such as if I repeatedly catch nice size, say 3-4 lb., channel catfish on these rigs, when I was fishing for bluegill. All of us have I'm sure noticed how mono line misbehaves after being pulled hard. Maybe I should call this "curly", as opposed to "twisty",

Now, I could be completely wrong about the spool surface being a problem, and I'm baffled by the inconsistency in casts, and the seeming "resistance" of the Chinese made Zebco 33 to this problem. (I am almost tempted to load the line from the Johnson 150A onto my oldest Chinese Zebco 33 Platinum and try that, as it's been a while since the line on the 33 Platinum was replaced, and it has by now almost surely lost significant (1/4?) strength and needs replacing anyway. Will the line from the 15A behave in the 33?

What do you think?

Is this just going to be an added expense and time lost (respooling) of using these older reels?

Should I get out my Dremel tool and try polishing the front inside surface and edge of the line spool(s)?

If I still had access to such at low cost, I'd seriously consider having someone "print" a clear cover so I could see what the heck is going on in there once a cast hangs. The outside dimensions would not be critical, just the inside dimensions, so, the material could be thicker: That way, the printed cover would have some reasonable strength. I suppose a spool with slightly reduced line capacity could also be printed and pertinent surfaces buffed smooth.

Thanks, All!

[castmaster54]

The mono line on a spin cast reel tends to “dig “into itself on the spool. This can cause the casts to be inconsistent.
Always put a little tension on the line when reeling in with the line between your thumb and finger.
This will help. The oscillating spool models are better.
A big problem is that the line makes a sharp bend around the pick up pin. I’m sure this wears the line,especially if it’s being pulled out from a fish or the reel is cranked with the line hung up.
I haven’t tried newer models but this is my experience with the old Shakespeares and Johnson’s.
I did recently help at a kids fishing derby and the new Chinese beginners spin cast reels are O K but certainly not fool proof! Just like the old ones!

[kyreels]

I don't like the spincasts for the reasons stated. I have known many old timers that swore by the Shakespeares, but I will only fish the spinning reels (where I can see any issue) or the baitcasters.

The type of mono always seems to make a difference. Some of the more flexible newer stuff seems to work better to me, but I am not the expert on line.

[Paul Roberts]

I can’t speak to specifics as I’m not a spin-cast guy. There could be a number of possible things at play: Newer reels may have better pick-up designs and/or materials. Old reels may simply need a deep cleaning and lubing. Of parts replacements, like pickup actuator springs. I remember that my older spincast reels had a somewhat limited range of line diameters they could work well with. Just some thoughts.

[Saluki]

The mono line on a spin cast reel tends to “dig “into itself on the spool. This can cause the casts to be inconsistent.
Always put a little tension on the line when reeling in with the line between your thumb and finger.
This will help. The oscillating spool models are better.
A big problem is that the line makes a sharp bend around the pick up pin. I’m sure this wears the line,especially if it’s being pulled out from a fish or the reel is cranked with the line hung up.
I haven’t tried newer models but this is my experience with the old Shakespeares and Johnson’s.
I did recently help at a kids fishing derby and the new Chinese beginners spin cast reels are O K but certainly not fool proof! Just like the old ones!

Yes, I always put a little tension on the line when reeling in with the line between my thumb and finger. I suspect that contributes to line twist, but, overall it does help maintain a nice line pack on the spool.

What baffles me is that, as I said, if I make a cast that "hangs", then if I try to pull out more line by hand to free things up, there will almost invariably be considerable resistance to that. Just like a line "dig", right? -- except that if I pop the reel cover off there is no "dig", and no tangle, and line will freely just fall off the spool. In the case of the Abu 170 (oscillating spool) the pack will look basically perfect. "What the Sam Hill...??" (or stronger...) I must have done this 1000 times by now.

Now, I do agree about entry level Chinese spincast reels. They invariably come with cheapo line on them too. There it's easy to get twisted line that ends up behind the spool cover, etc. I think you have to get up to the level of at least a Zebco 33 to have a chance of reasonably reliable performance, and those seem to do better than similar cost models from other brands. The Platinum 33's I've found to be darn good - I don't know what Zebco "figured out" on those, but as of around 10-15 years ago (typical yard sale find), they didn't seem to have managed to screw them up...

Edit: I forgot to add, the Abu 170 has relatively large pickup pins, so, that may help a bit with the line wear. I've seen larger pins that free-rotate, and shaped pins too, but overall I suspect other wear issues and line twist are bigger problems. If cheap materials are used, grooves cut by the line into the spinner head itself are a major problem with spincast reels.

[Saluki]

I don't like the spincasts for the reasons stated. I have known many old timers that swore by the Shakespeares, but I will only fish the spinning reels (where I can see any issue) or the baitcasters.

The type of mono always seems to make a difference. Some of the more flexible newer stuff seems to work better to me, but I am not the expert on line.

Well, someday I should probably do a lengthy post about why I pick one type reel over another for different situations. One big plus of spincast reels for me is that I can get 3 (at least) of my combos into a soft rifle case and carry them, well protected, on a brushy trail to a secluded spot. Of course new "compact" baitcast reels like the Black Max work for that too.

When it comes to line, I agree, as I find Trilene XL to work well for me in most situations despite its stretchiness. Not so much when long casts are involved, though, as sensitivity and hook sets suffer badly.

I'd also add that I have yet to find a spincast reel that handles braid well at all. Every time I've tried has been a disaster.

[oc1]

I think the problem comes when old line gets stiff. Stiff line with just a little bit of twist has a mind of its own and goes where it wants under the cover. It can reach around and grab the nub of a pin or jump off of the pin at will.

[Paul Roberts]

That was my next thought, old line getting stiff and wiry. And/or, any chance the problem reel is getting low on line? I do remember that my spincast reels would bind/stick when getting low on line. Some could be a bit fussy about line levels.

[Saluki]

It is true that I always have plenty of spincast reels to fish with that work well, including those Chinese made Zebco 33 Platinum's that seem more resistant to line problems, and I'm most comfortable with spincast reels. But it is most puzzling that some of the best long distance casters, like that Abu 170 with brand new line in it, seem to fall into the "hangs" problem so much sooner with use of that line.

[Saluki]

I think the problem comes when old line gets stiff. Stiff line with just a little bit of twist has a mind of its own and goes where it wants under the cover. It can reach around and grab the nub of a pin or jump off of the pin at will.

You know, there may be quite a bit to that. Once an attempted long cast gets out 30 ft. or so, it usually keeps going (if the intent was a 70 ft. cast.) Hangs are most often in the 1st several feet, where the line would be the most degraded. But that still leaves the question of how the Chinese made Zebco 33 Platinum reels seem to resist the problem...

[Midway Tommy D]

Regular stretching of the line, like connecting your hook or lure to something stationary and walking out 75 or 100 feet and pulling the memory loops & kinks out helps quite a bit. When stored away for awhile mono, especially cheaper makes, acquire a set. That stretching will usually get one through a current outing, especially if your using a quality line like Trilene XL or the like.

[Saluki]

That was my next thought, old line getting stiff and wiry. And/or, any chance the problem reel is getting low on line? I do remember that my spincast reels would bind/stick when getting low on line. Some could be a bit fussy about line levels.

Yes, I think that (line level) could be a contributing factor. Although that is a bit "weird", as what is different about the situation in the reel when a cast is 40 ft. out (from a full spool) and when the cast is 5 ft. out from a spool that has been "depleted" by 35 ft.? I'll measure how much line is left on the Abu 170 from when I last respooled it: Generally I have backing line and then 100 ft. of 8 lb. Trilene XL or in this case Cajun Smoothcast.* 35 ft. of line "lost" off the Abu seems like a lot, but, I suppose it's possible.

FWIW, if I can get off a cast that doesn't hang within several feet out, the Abu and the Johnson 150A will still make long casts. I "made it to the splice" (knot) several times on the 150A, last time out. And then it might hang 10 ft. out, the next cast. Maybe the line "deeper in the spool" is likely in better shape than that in the 1st 20 ft. or so of line on the spool?

Lots of seemingly contradictory data...

*SmoothCast or the earlier "RedCast" is what Zebco put in those 33's.

[Saluki]

Regular stretching of the line, like connecting your hook or lure to something stationary and walking out 75 or 100 feet and pulling the memory loops & kinks out helps quite a bit. When stored away for awhile mono, especially cheaper makes, acquire a set. That stretching will usually get one through a current outing, especially if your using a quality line like Trilene XL or the like.

I do run the line out sometimes and leave the far end free, then retrieve. That also more or less happens if I make a successful long cast (see previous post by me.) But, I've not tried actually stretching the line a bit. Hmmm! What fraction of the line's rating do you suggest, and for how long? I do know I don't want to put high stress on the line, as that can really make it "curly".

Maybe 1 lb. of force on an 8 lb. line for a minute or so?

Yes, Trilene XL is my most usual choice.

[Midway Tommy D]

I put as much pull on it as I can without it breaking. I can usually tell when enough pull is enough and it's just about to break. Pull, release, pull, release, pull, release, stretching a few times until when I release it no longer automatically makes tight curls & loops. You'll get the feel after you've done it a couple of times. It does not reduce the integrity of decent condition line. It just stretches and eliminates the retained memory.

Putting high stress on mono wont make it curly unless you are reeling against the drag and line is stationary or it is being pulled out against your reeling and the drag.

[Bill Sonnett]

During the Tulsa National I sought out the president and production manager at Zebco with specific questions about the mono they used and the problems I have had trying to relive my youth when I used a Shakespeare 1755 closed face spinning reel. When putting "modern" mono on this reei it became hard to crank as friction from the line passing around the pick-up pin was akin to trying to pass a rubber band back and forth around a nail sticking up from a board. They both informed me that this was a problem with newer, softer mono's and they only installed two types of mono on their new reels. The first was their own brand of mono and the second was the red colored Cajun brand. I have had success using an older brand of German mono, the name of which escapes me and I am not at home at present to look it up.

[Midway Tommy D]

Bill,

Possibly Playtl or Ande? If my memory serves me right Garcia got their Playtl mono out of Germany.

[Paul Roberts]

Possibly Maxima. Their Chameleon had a hard coating. It was the choice for fly-fishing leader butt sections too.

[Bill Sonnett]

Found it. It is Damyl Gold made by DAM in Germany.

[Paul Roberts]

Maxima Chameleon was a mighty stiff line. Might not have been the best for spin-cast.