Are reels just for Crustys?

[john elder]

In reading all the dialogue re board log-ins and things you don't want your family to see on the board, it occurs that there aren't likely to be too many tots looking at all our reel ramblings. "Younguy" at least sounds young, but has probably been paying taxes for several years and I haven't heard a chirp from any young people on this board! Can't remember what the answer was re the average age of this group, but I believe it's safe to assume that a lot of us are at least being pestered to join AARP. Are reels only going to be passed down, like the family farm?... or are there things we should be doing to sow some seeds?

There have been thoughts along those lines on the lure side of the hobby, due to the ridiculous prices a lot of painted sticks have reached. However, there are plenty of low end collections of lures that catch fish and make interesting color collections. That's not true for reels...at least it's not obvious to me. Thoughts?

[Roger Schulz]

John:

You are right. I don't have the average age of our members, but I would guess it is over 50 years old. I have been thinking for some time on how to reach the younger generation and to spark some interest in collecting fishing reels and other tackle. In talking to Phil, he sees a lot of folks on ebay buying newer reels. I am not sure if those are collectors or actual users. Among the younger generation, the interest may be in newer reels, since those are the ones people less than 40 have used for fishing.

We, ORCA, need to do a better job of outreach and public relations. We need to get the word out to more folks what ORCA is and the enjoyment of collecting antique fishing reels. We will be talking about how to reach more folks at our Board meeting in New York next week. One think I would like to do this summer is develop a desk top display for ORCA that can be sent to members who are attending fishing shows or other events (I do a display at the Bass Pro Shop once a year during their Fishing Classic event.) I have an outreach/grahics person on my staff at work who is great at developing such displays and would be happy to develop a desktop display for our needs.

We need to all be thinking of how we can reach more people - young and old. Our membership has remained for several years at about 850. We gain about 100 members a year and lose about the same amount that do not renew.

I am open to ideas on how we can get the younger generation interested into collecting fishing reels.

Roger Schulz
Sec//Treasurer

[Brian F.]

I think there are a lot of collectors out there but I've always felt "old", "antique", etc. is relative and what more are collecting now are just things that 1. they are familiar with and can relate to or identify with in their "era" 2. are affordable and 3. just plain available. I can't imagine there are or will ever be many younger collectors of birdcage reels, etc. Maybe ORCA needs to appeal more in some way to these people, even though it may not suit our collecting tastes or interest. I think ORCA does that already to some extent by including all types of subjects in the Reel News. I know a lot of guys that are into collecting Newell reels by Carl Newell out of CA. These reels can't be older than 35 years but the types of people that collect these and their interest in details/history are very similar to your average ORCAn.

Just getting into it, I had no interest in a "birdcage reel" or even knew what it was. But after getting "sucked in" to the hobby, I began to appreciate things older than what I was primarily interested in after learning about all the wonderful stuff that's out there.

As for public exposure, it appears to me that ORCA needs to be visible more at different types of events (not sure what they might be) and maybe not just old tackle or sporting shows?

[Brian F.]

I knew we talked about this subject before:

http://reeltalk.orcaonline.org ... hlight=age

[Reel Geezer]

If a silver Shimano Bantam 100 with wooden handles comes up on eBay that is scuffed and scratched with "boat rash" it sells for a fishing reel price - $25-40. If the same reel comes up for auction and is EX to Mint in the box with papers, it will sell for $125-175 depending upon the day and how nice the reel is. Obviously the reels are being bid on by collectors.

There are lots of collectors out there that are not collecting "old stuff" and have never even heard of ORCA. Just ask Ben Wright what it was like 10 years ago for spinning reel collectors. I pursuaded Ben to write a regular column for The Reel News hoping to lure more spinning reel collectors into the group, but it is a tough fight. Some of the older collectors were outraged when I included spinning reels, noting that ORCA is the "Old Reel Collectors Association."

Many of my friends and fellow collectors think I've gone off the deep end with my current collection of 1975-2000 low profile casting reels, but I love collecting them. They are plentiful, and sometimes cheap (inexpensive if you are not fussy about condition), and are an important development in the evolution of casting reels. I'm sure there are also collectors of the beautifully constructed fly reels being made today as well.

How does ORCA lure in these new collectors? I really don't know.

[Robin Sayler]

I am pretty young being 21 years old. At this point i collect just what i can afford nothing too expensive but once and a while i splurge and buy something expensive. hopefully i can graduate college next year and move on to bigger and better. I don't really know how i got into collecting reels it just kind of happened one day when i was about 12. This last year is when i started collecting seriously. I know i have one perspective member here who is younger than me by a couple years, my girlfriend has started tinkering and is getting the fever to see more. Apparently this hobby is contaguous.

[Richard Lodge]

John, et. al., this is a great topic for discussion on the board at the at the convention. Judging from the chatter on joeyates.com, the lure collectors have been wrestling with this dilemma, too, although I get the sense many of those older lure collectors just want a cluster of younger members who will pay big bucks for the older guys' collections. Sorry, I couldn't resist that. As far as ORCA goes, I agree with Roger 100%. We need to talk about ways to bring in more of the younger collectors and I think Phil's comments - and his excellent Reel News article a few months ago about collecting newer reels - are right on the money. I'd welcome ideas for articles for the magazine about this topic and about newer reels that are collectible - or might be worth collecting now because of their quality, scarcity, unique designs or just because they're neat. I hope we can get some good conversation going on this next week.
Richard

[Roger Schulz]

Do we have any ORCA members who have been or still are involved in marketing? Who could give us some professional advise on how to reach new members and the younger members.

Roger

[Don Champion]

I can understand how it would be hard for younger members to collect the older reels. First, there are not enough of them (except Horton & Meek No. 33's of which there are quite a few of out there) in better collectable condition. I became interested in older fishing tackle when I was about 15 in 1955. I had a small collection of whatever I could talk someone out of, which was mostly old steel rods and level wind reels that were broken or worn out. My first truly collectable reel was a Meisselbach 580 which I picked up when I was 17 and working at the Fish Hatchery in Front Royal, VA. An older fellow was using it on his fly rod. I bought him a new Pflueger fly reel & traded for it! I still have that reel.
I think ebay makes it easier for todays collectors to find items to add to their collections. All collectors of fishing tackle seem to have one thing in common. They are all active fishermen/women. Karl White has a column in B.A.S.S. magazine. Perhaps he can get a small notice in there along with his column. Worth a try asking anyway. If anyone knows of another magazine that has an old fishing tackle column, perhaps they would be willing to help us out also.
You have to admit it can be an expensive hobby for a younger person just starting out and also trying to raise a family, buy a house, etc.
Don

[Steve]

There are two different problems:
1. Demonstrating to young'uns that many folks collect old reels and convincing them that collecting is a fun, interesting hobby.
2. Convincing those young'uns who collect to join ORCA.

Obviously, the future of ORCA will depend on solving both. In the meantime, I think the big concern would be #2. There are a lot of collectors out there, young and old, who still have no idea we exist, and a lot of others who haven't been convinced that paying dues is worthwhile.

[Robin Sayler]

I collected reels since i was 12 and just stumbled on orca last year online. That is a solid 9 years of not even knowing this group exsisted. I think we do need to try to reach more people. i think a good start would be asking members to put up a sign on there tables or something as easy as wearing an orca shirt if they go to a show.

[el Lawrence]

Let's see... not getting any AARP material here yet...

I have been collecting for a good number of years now and have a few nationals under the belt even.
Not sure I can recall how I got sucked in... UHhh make that informed as to the ORCA organization...

BUT being in the advertising/pr type business... I would say exposure (not that kind Harvey) to receptive folks is a good bet. We will need "Good will Representatives" to attend and have booths at big well attended fishing type events. Tournaments, Outdoor Expos, maybe even boat shows...

Antiques show with "sporting" stuff... Presentations to local scout troups? Maybe ORCA could come up with a "Antique Fishing" badge... Members could mentor interested scouts... Cover subjects like the Heritage of the Sport not just old reels...although they could be a major focus...

Have ORCA materials avalable at any antique tackle type museums (Fly Fishing Museum, Thought one of our memebers was a buyer for some big Salt and Surf fishing museum somewhere down in FLA... The Heddon Museum in MI...)

I think a few nice gleaming displays and a little info. could hook a lot of folks that had never thought about it... I have more ideas on this that maybe we can talk about at Nationals...

When I was a new member I found a nice clean JACOXE in a leather case to be something that impressed... An easy and reasonably priced type of reel to collect... Getting new members interested in the middle and lower range reels... (not too pricey and fairly easy to find a nice one or make a collection from) is a good starting place... Don't worry... once hooked they will find all sorts of insanity on their own... Collections evolve over time. No need to start at the top...

Hey I have my "side collections" while I wait for those tough Pfluegers, impossible Irish reels and more cheap O. Zwargs to show up...
Yes you CAN color collect in reels- I Do ... also "Material" collect (have a nifty copper collection started that I need rods and reels for...), also tiny raised pillar reels, ones with neat names... None of them have proved very expensive... ANY THING THAT INTERESTS THEM... reels made in the state you live in, the type of fishing you like (fly or surf...) All good ideas for starter collectors...

[Lillawill]

Hi Everyone

Member ship is always a concern with a large association but I wouldn't worry. I have known about ORCA for several years but only joined this year. I now wish I had joined years ago. Young fisherman that are serious fisherman automaticly collect. When we were young ourselves we fished with what we could afford and when the chance came we bought that first really nice expensive reel we wanted. Money is always hard to come by when starting a family and home so the collection builds slowly but it grows and in time we are collectors. How many of us still have the first reels we owned. They may not be great ones but we still got them. Collectors evolve and then all of as sudden it is there. It is when we get curious about something and start to do some research that we get hooked. The research is half the fun and once this starts a collector is born. We all get there is just takes time. The young guys and gals are comming so not to worry.

Bill

[Teal]

Great topic. I wonder if there is any way that ORCA can get on board the growing professional fishing craze (bass, walleye, musky tours, etc.). It would seem logical since these professional fishermen have the requisite knowledge, talent, and interest in fishing history to be great ORCA members. Some of them are sponsored by major tackle companies and either design or field test new reels, so they are also creating future history for our hobby. An ORCA display/promotional materials/etc. at the opening and weigh-ins for these tournaments would certainly be hitting a target audience.

With the huge number of collectors on eBay buying reels who are NOT members of ORCA, I am stunned that membership ebbs and flows the way it does. No other organization in the hobby consistently offers as much bang for the buck as ORCA does. But we can easily offer more services that can be used to directly recruit more members.

1) The formation of a college scholarship program for the children/grandchildren/dependents and members of ORCA. Moneys to be funded from donations of cash and/or auction of donated tackle. Lots of college degrees running around ORCA, why not harness some of them to do some good? (We're not talking full ride here, but something like $1000 scholarship or whatever sum is deemed appropriate).

2) A research program designed to recruit and sponsor research on reel and reel-related topics. We have to be more proactive, and create a place and tools for new researchers to begin work that may well spawn more ORCA members.

3) Tap into the enormous knowledge and skills of ORCA's membership by creating a "Reel Collectors Vade Mecum." This is a primer, a beginner's guide. Since I started The Whitefish Press two people have approached me about this idea, but I have been reluctant to work on it until I sounded out the ORCA membership, as I believe this should be an ORCA-sponsored work given out to its members as a recruitment/retainment perk. Giving new members a guide that covers many aspects of collecting, from how to begin research, a bibliographic essay on reel books, the pleasures/pitfalls of eBay, how to clean (and how NOT to clean) a reel, fakes and reproductions, etc. will allow them to better enjoy the hobby and keep them interested for the forseeable future.

Folks, we just have to be me more promotional minded. Why aren't we working with Daiwa, Ryobi, Silstar, Johnson, etc. on cross-promotional work? Great researchers/writers like Phil are becoming interested in modern reels, but the history of many of these companies (like JOhnson) dates back a half century or more. Members could volunteer to work on a company history in exchange for promotion on their Web Site, packaging, etc. Everyone loves to have their contributions chronicled, reel companies are no different.

I think the first step is to form a Public Relations Committee for ORCA. I know I'd be happy to lend a hand. A PR committee would work to help promote ORCA and ORCAns in the popular media. Things like press releases, media relations, etc. I know I was contacted a couple of years ago (before ORCA) by The History Channel, who was looking for "experts" on fishing tackle history who could be used for a documentary on fishing history. Why wasn't ORCA proactive in promoting Vernon, White, Miller, etc., the real experts out there on the subject? Because there was no PR mechanism for promoting ORCA.

I'm off to lecture on the first siege of Vienna in Washington D.C. so I will be out of communication. Maybe someone can broach this subject at NAtionals and drop me a line?

Cheers,

Dr. Todd

[Roger Schulz]

A lot of good ideas have been presented in the past week or so. I have made a list of the ideas and some of my own and will bring the subject up at the ORCA Board meeting on Thursday.

Roger

[Tom E.]

But Roger you have a broken ankle. Err what were you doing up in a tree anyway? As we have just learned us collectors are all crusty's; it would seem we would have learned to stay out of trees at this late date.

See you tomorrow.

Tom

[Ron Mc]

Doc,
I believe we are the antithesis of the professional fishermen and especially the tackle companies.
The manufacturers know their market is declining. Unless they can convince their shrinking market that the latest whiz bang high tech devices are indispensible, they go under.
The professional fisherman - his job is to promote new tackle, and sell it on national television, if he can get there.
(Every local guide reps one line of tackle, tries to get his fares to use it, then tries to get them to buy it - mention cane and fiberglass - they're generally programmed to sneer.)
We definately represent the antithesis of the manufacturer's primary customer - the retailer. Ebay has helped to close tackle shops all over the country and, in a way, we represent ebay buyers and sellers. I just don't see us being warmly received by the tackle manufacturers.

Look how "pro shop" fly shops are folding up. Very likely, only the retailers with a long-standing catalog business will survive (and the shops mainly selling womens clothing in tourist towns). But you need a new $700 boron-titanium-90-zillion-modulus rod with a fly reel that looks like the wheels that keep spinning after the SUV stops. The fly tackle manufacturers don't know what else to push, so they've turned the sport into distance casting (they started this industry in the late 70s as outdoor boutiques centered on fishing travel destinations - most of the fly fishers I met in the '80s never fished at home, only in Orvis-endorsed lodges).

The other side of the coin are the cane and fiberglass rod collectors and fishers. There are high grade cane collectors, and collecting American classic and Hardy fly reels follows naturally. (a good friend started here and has fallen in love with early Shakespeare multipliers.)
Most of us, however, find a $100 rod and $60 reel, and head to the river.
Having been bitten by the reel bug, I finally settled into my niche - prewar fly reels made by JW Young. That didn't stop me from focussing in on NLW multipliers, as well.
Been trading e-mails with a friend who recently decided to start up an Ocean City fly reel collection. I think he may be joining ORCA to get access to the library.

All that being said, if you know how to get us PR within the fishing tackle industry - more power to you. Maybe you need to reverse the perceptions that I posted...

[Ron Mc]

a really good "contemporary" line for collecting are the out-of-production (USA) Martin fly reels - there are so many variants and prices are reasonable (except for that guy that charges $25 shipping and handling).

(Somebody may be going to tell me to shush here.)

[Teal]

Ron,

I truly believe "any press is good press," particularly in light of the competitive cut-throat nature of the tackle business. Tackle manufacturers have been friendly to collectors in the past; Jensen--owner of many old brands--made reproduction lures for the NFLCC. Why? Not to make money, but to promote their company to an organization with 5000 members who think nothing of spending $500 for a reel or $200 for a lure. PRADCO and Shakespeare have both been friendly to collectors in the past. Where one tackle company goes, the others simply cannot afford not to follow. And don't ever underestimate how interested people are in chronicling their own history.

Case in point, for a future article on "Our Own Hardware" reels, I traced the purchase of this old wholesaling co-op to Hardware Wholesalers Incorporated (HWI). A few queries put me in touch with an executive who, when they discovered their company would be featured in The Reel News, proceeded to furnish me with over 1000 pages of copies and original documents dealing with both their history and their foray into the fishing tackle field. All it took was initiative. My last article on Morley-Murphy (May 2006 Reel News) is another example; the company hasn't sold tackle for 40 years, yet went way out of their way to provide me with information for the article. ANY press is good press these days, particularly positive press.

As Phil constantly points out, and your last post clearly shows, promoting newer reels as collectables is not a stretch. Almost all professional fishermen certainly are interested in new tackle and are paid to promote it, but I would bet a gold nickel that many are also fascinated with the history of their sport. Why else does Karl White have a popular article in Bassmaster magazine? Have we approached any of these pro fishermen (at least one major bass pro basser is an NFLCC member) about getting linked on their web site? About asking for memories of their favorite old reel or lure, people like Bill Dance, Paul Elias, etc.?

Provide tackle manufacturers with a rationale for why helping us will help them and they will beat your door down.

Cheers,

Dr. Todd

[Reel Geezer]

I know I was contacted a couple of years ago (before ORCA) by The History Channel, who was looking for "experts" on fishing tackle history who could be used for a documentary on fishing history. Why wasn't ORCA proactive in promoting Vernon, White, Miller, etc., the real experts out there on the subject? Because there was no PR mechanism for promoting ORCA.

Dr. Todd: I was also contacted by the producers of that program. I had a long talk with the lady in charge. I learned that they were only interested in interviewing people who lived in California (where the program was being filmed). I told them about ORCA, and sent the producers to Stu Lawson, who was consulted on the program. I also had them get in contact with Rick Edmiston who was also consulted. Over the years we have been written up in many national sporting magazines, and we are constantly being consulted by new collectors.

I have been writing a column for a British collector magazine for several years that has promoted ORCA, and have recently been asked to write about collectible reels for a web site that is on the cutting edge of modern reel production. This column will also promote ORCA. We've been getting out the word for many years, and it is still going on.

I believe that today's society, where information is so readily available, does not lend itself to the growth of groups like ours. However, I don't really care. As long as we have an organization that is the size of ours we'll be able to have wonderful events like the just concluded convention. NFLCC with their 3000 members will never be in the same league as ORCA, and due to logistics they can never compete.

Just my view of the ORCA family.

[Harvey]

GUYS!
Glad to see that some are promoting our club in different ways. I agree with Phil in the fact that all you have to do is be around a bunch of reel collectors to get the idea of what we are all about. Case in point: Craig Wolfe is not a reel collector. He contacted me a couple weeks before the show and ask if it would be worth his time to drive down from Burlington. I told him that you never know what will show up. Well, he joined the club and did his thing. Had a great time. Upon getting ready to leave, he told me that this was the most fun he had ever had at a show. Nobody tried to pressure him and was willing to help and listen when he or anybody else had a question. He will be back for more. I also was talking to Jim S. at the front table long into the morning on Sat. We had 60 people walk in at that time and there was more before we closed. I know that the more members we have the merrier but with our 800 or so, we all get along and have a respect for each other. If we had 3000 or whatever like the NFLCC and had to go thru what their membership has to, I wouldn't want to be a part of it either. Just keep up the good work and in time, our name will get out thru the people that have experienced the fun we have and we will stay solvent.
That's my box!
"H"

[Brian F.]

I think what's developed here as a result of John's question is more of how do we make sure the club just doesn't disappear after a while and not so much as make it grow. Kind of what I mentioned before but if you get people interested in the club through what they like, it's quite probable that they will expand their collecting interest and want to learn more about the history and other types of reels.

In terms of growth, one area it may help is when it comes time to look for places and hosts for the National. But maybe not - there's a ton of members in the western states and FL. I'm still waiting for a National in San Diego (hint, hint Elder) or Orlando so I can convince my family to come along for a side trip to Disneyland or Disneyworld! (By the way, I hear there's pretty good fishing at Disneyworld - but if we do go there, just don't make it during 'cane season!)

I do agree with Harv about being around other reel collectors - We just kinda grow on you...

[Teal]

Phil et al.,

I wasn't meaning to suggest that ORCA is in any kind of trouble, part of the charm of ORCA is it is relatively easy to get to know a bunch of people (just attach yourself to Harvey like a remora and you will eventually meet everyone on earth). I was only meaning to suggest that a standardized committee within ORCA responsible for promoting BOTH the organization and its fine membership would be a great start. Writing press releases is pretty easy. Promotion is a natural by-product of wanting to share your interests and passions with others. Who knows? I moved to reels because of the controversy with repaints/fakes in lures, and never looked back. I am also in my mid-30s. Whose to say that a whole bunch of other young-ish collectors wouldn't be interested in making a change, if only they knew more about ORCA? I knew ORCA existed but frankly before the past few years, didn't know much about the organization. Had I known more about The Reel News before I would have joined long ago. Hey, maybe that's my fault, but I like to think of myself as a pretty knowledgable collector and even I wasn't sure exactly what ORCA was about and what it stood for. Once I did, I was hooked.

Promoting in a variety of places doesn't cost a ton of money, and can reap some neat rewards. I'm not arguing for an ORCA of 5000 members, but an ORCA that consistently attracts 25-50 new and dedicated (and yes, some younger) members a year is a healthy, vibrant, growing organization.

Here's to celebrating ORCA's 25th and 50th anniversary as a top-notch, member-oriented, information-driven group of all around good people. I

Isn't that what ORCA is all about?

Dr. Todd

[john elder]

Did any dialogue re young collectors get going at the Nationals or were you folks too busy having fun? there were threats that this would be a topic of conversation.

i also just had an interesting experience...bought a reel off Joes from a fellow named Charlie Kornsey, who has some South Bend stuff to move. I told him to come here and sell to you guys and gave him the url...turns out, he's already a member of orca and didn't even know that this board existed! Soo, Richard...or one of you with the dais in the next reel news...add a quick promotion of the board! Lots of members don't have computers, so we have to get them involved differently...but it's pretty silly when we have people cruising the internet and don't know there's a safe haven for the Reelites! Charlie...hope you got signed up and are now aboard! Small amount of inertia to overcome to do the log-in, but once you click that "remember me" button, you never need to do it again..unless you dump your cookies or your computer!

[el Lawrence]

First point... re earlier posts; let's not wait till the organization is suffering to try and promo it or get more members... if we all make a tiny effort to tell people about it and how much fun we have, etc. it won't get to a suffering or numbers slump point.

I had suggested at Nationals that if you sell reels on the 'bay when you send out the reel to the buyer, take a second to run out the info. page off this site and tuck it into the packing... you never know.

I think the newsletter and web site should cross promo each other all the time... I try to do it in my posts (ie: if you like the conversation and info. here there is a lot more to be had that isn't posted here in REEL NEWS... which is TRUE! You DO get a lot for very cheap membership dues.) Anyway I try to remind folks that have found the web site that there IS more and while you don't have to belong to post you do miss out on a whole bunch of info. that comes in the mail regularly...

If we would all just think to mention it to other fisher folk, lure, tackle, antique folk that we bump into I imagine that there are a bunch of people that would love to join but just don't really know what they are missing...

Sort of think of it as outreach to closet collectors...

Also think it is good for our members to try and network more, invite folks in your area in the club to come over for a look at the collection, have a beer, talk reels, fish, show-and-tell of reels, grab some BBQ, take in an antique show... whatever social thing that seems to fit or you would be comfortable with... YOU don't have to attend a National to make your own fun with other members...