Good morning folks:
I've got a shameful confession to make. Although I've fished since I was about 5, for some reason I've never learned to operate a bait casting reel! I've acquired several, due to my fascination with their mechanics and appearance, and figure it's about time for me to learn how. I've got several guides to bait casting ( mostly from the 40's and 50's), but a couple questions remain:
1. Several of the books indicate that the reel handles should be up, not on the side, when casting. Does this make any real difference? The mechanics of wrist motion don't work as well that way.
2. I would appreciate suggestions for a good match, reel wise, for a South Bend model 9 (6 foot, extra light action bamboo, straight handle rod designed for 1/4- 3/8 oz. baits). I have a Heddon P-41, but wonder if there's a better alternative for these light lures, using 9 lb. nylon. Would one of the narrow spool reels be better, or, again, does it make any difference?
3. Any thoughts on straight handle versus offset handle rods?
Thanks in advance for the help.
Pete Appel
casting reel help
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Ron Mc
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Very different from spinning tackle - you swing a bait-caster more like a bat. There is really no back-cast involved.
My preferred cast is kind of an uphill sidearm, aiming into the sky.
(I taught a friend this over the internet, so I know it works - and he's already bass fishing with vintage tackle)
smooth acceleration.
You don't need wrist motion - any jerk in your cast just adds to the backlash.
Your thumb is the brake for the reel.
If you can tension the spool with the end caps, you want to tension it so that, holding the rod up a 45 degrees, when the weight touches the ground, the spool will stop with no over-spin.
Start by making 10' to 15' casts, with slow arm motions, to get a feel for the whole pricess. Slowly work your way out to 100+' casts.
I find it best with antique reels, especially, to release your thumb (the spool) as soon as you start the forward motion for the cast. Your thumb has to do some light brakeing all through the cast and then clamp the spool hard the instant the weight touches down.
Old Doc Henshall did a very good analysis of the cast you might look for this book - usually quite inexpensive:
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif ... =114925185
I'm sure the great distance casters use an overhand cast, and even trade arms to get all possible energy into the rod - which I also do with my Lews and Loomis in the salt flats and surf. But the sidearm is much better to learn, especially with a vintage reel. With an overhand cast, if your timing is off, you plant the weight at your feet and create a destructive backlash in your reel.
If you're off on a sidearm cast - it just goes to the side of where you were aiming.
My preferred cast is kind of an uphill sidearm, aiming into the sky.
(I taught a friend this over the internet, so I know it works - and he's already bass fishing with vintage tackle)
smooth acceleration.
You don't need wrist motion - any jerk in your cast just adds to the backlash.
Your thumb is the brake for the reel.
If you can tension the spool with the end caps, you want to tension it so that, holding the rod up a 45 degrees, when the weight touches the ground, the spool will stop with no over-spin.
Start by making 10' to 15' casts, with slow arm motions, to get a feel for the whole pricess. Slowly work your way out to 100+' casts.
I find it best with antique reels, especially, to release your thumb (the spool) as soon as you start the forward motion for the cast. Your thumb has to do some light brakeing all through the cast and then clamp the spool hard the instant the weight touches down.
Old Doc Henshall did a very good analysis of the cast you might look for this book - usually quite inexpensive:
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif ... =114925185
I'm sure the great distance casters use an overhand cast, and even trade arms to get all possible energy into the rod - which I also do with my Lews and Loomis in the salt flats and surf. But the sidearm is much better to learn, especially with a vintage reel. With an overhand cast, if your timing is off, you plant the weight at your feet and create a destructive backlash in your reel.
If you're off on a sidearm cast - it just goes to the side of where you were aiming.
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john elder
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re advice and casting reels, I've found that the tines of a fork are excellent for removing bird's nests from the spool...dull enough to not nick the line, but pointy enough to get in there -
Ron Mc
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I was free-shrimping with a guide at the coast (ok, now that I think of it, this was about 20 years ago). He kept trying to tell me how to cast. I was letting line out with my thumb during the casting arc to effectively lengthen the rod before I had to an overhead position and then accelerated it sharply. I didn't do it his way and was throwing 40' farther than him on every cast.
---- him off.
oh btw, with that little Shakespeare 1740 that I posted in my show and tell and 4-1/2' Montague Flash cane bait rod, I have been able to fish down to 1/8-oz. Remarkable how that reel casts light weights.
---- him off.
oh btw, with that little Shakespeare 1740 that I posted in my show and tell and 4-1/2' Montague Flash cane bait rod, I have been able to fish down to 1/8-oz. Remarkable how that reel casts light weights.
Let's see, I'm probably the least qualified to say anything here but if I remember what nationally ranked caster and ORCA member Bill Peters had to say in his seminar at the ORCA Nationals, he had the following key points:
1. The back cast was very important to properly load the rod and the energy released after this "coiling" action is what makes your cast. Therefore you did not want a rod that was too stiff and that leaning towards a rod with a softer action was better, at least for casting. To cast, the weight should be at the tip of the rod with very little if no "drop" at all. For lighter weights, you can let out a little more line to increase the "drop" from the tip. The key is not to let the line get any slack in it as you make your back cast as that causes a jerky action and will result in a backlash or bad cast. So a smooth action in both the back and forward motions is a must to keep tension on the rod and get it to progressivley load and unload.
2. The whole rig needs to be balanced and your weight needs to be sized right, otherwise you compensate by making high, looping casts. I watched Bill and others that competed in the ORCA tournament and all of them had a similar style - horizontal trajectories, described more like "shooting" the weight to a target (guess that helps when there's overhanging brush).
3. Their elbow and wrist actions were very important also since they lead the back cast and forward motion. It seemed like a personal preference as to whether they held the reel upright or had the handles upward.
I'm sure others can remind me of the other important points that I forgot to mention here but hope this helps.
1. The back cast was very important to properly load the rod and the energy released after this "coiling" action is what makes your cast. Therefore you did not want a rod that was too stiff and that leaning towards a rod with a softer action was better, at least for casting. To cast, the weight should be at the tip of the rod with very little if no "drop" at all. For lighter weights, you can let out a little more line to increase the "drop" from the tip. The key is not to let the line get any slack in it as you make your back cast as that causes a jerky action and will result in a backlash or bad cast. So a smooth action in both the back and forward motions is a must to keep tension on the rod and get it to progressivley load and unload.
2. The whole rig needs to be balanced and your weight needs to be sized right, otherwise you compensate by making high, looping casts. I watched Bill and others that competed in the ORCA tournament and all of them had a similar style - horizontal trajectories, described more like "shooting" the weight to a target (guess that helps when there's overhanging brush).
3. Their elbow and wrist actions were very important also since they lead the back cast and forward motion. It seemed like a personal preference as to whether they held the reel upright or had the handles upward.
I'm sure others can remind me of the other important points that I forgot to mention here but hope this helps.
THANKS!
To all who took the time to answer (Brian F, Ron Mc, Steve, Dr. Rob and John E.):
Thanks for all the tips- if the rain lets up, I'll see if I can develop my backlashing skills this weekend.
Also, thank all of you ORCANs in general for the help you've given, both to me and to others- this board was a major reason I joined, since I live at some distance from even the closest shows ( it's 5 hours to Columbia, SC, for example), so I have to rely on reading, the Internet, and this organization to dispel portions of my ignorance. Hands on experience is limited to the examples I can afford to buy and dissect, which means that some questions are still unanswered (like, what does a Mint casting reel feel like mechanically? Don't know- never have had one- most of mine are M7-M7+). The only advantage is that I ain't skeered to tear them down to inspect, measure, fix and lubricate - if I mess one up, it didn't cost me the world and two nearby stars.
Thanks again folks, and have a fishful weekend!
Pete
Thanks for all the tips- if the rain lets up, I'll see if I can develop my backlashing skills this weekend.
Also, thank all of you ORCANs in general for the help you've given, both to me and to others- this board was a major reason I joined, since I live at some distance from even the closest shows ( it's 5 hours to Columbia, SC, for example), so I have to rely on reading, the Internet, and this organization to dispel portions of my ignorance. Hands on experience is limited to the examples I can afford to buy and dissect, which means that some questions are still unanswered (like, what does a Mint casting reel feel like mechanically? Don't know- never have had one- most of mine are M7-M7+). The only advantage is that I ain't skeered to tear them down to inspect, measure, fix and lubricate - if I mess one up, it didn't cost me the world and two nearby stars.
Thanks again folks, and have a fishful weekend!
Pete
tension and balance
Hey Hurdpete,
Having just taken up the conventional reel in the past 5 years or so and finding it far more sensitive and in touch with what's going on in the water than a spinning outfit I'm finding it hard to go back to what I did for so many years -- spin. At first I struggled like everyone else with the tangled nest that ends the days fishing unless you have a spare reel on hand.
I've fished with different reels but the bottom lines are tension on the spool so that it won't spin faster than the offering is thrown, which is accomplished with the spool end cap or caps depending on the reel (Always start with slightly more tension than you think you'll need and throw soft casts to start backing off the tension in minute increments, while putting a little more of your back into it as you proceed.)
&
balance you offering to the rod reel and line weight so it isn't over or under loaded. Better to start with a lighter offering and build up.
I fish open water most of the time and have to cover as much as possible so I lean into my casts pretty hard even though I don't throw much weight. I use a shock leader about twice as long as my rod that twice the test of my main line to keep from breaking off during casting. I'm a side armer throwing 1/2 to 1 1/2 ounces with 4 to 15 lb. main line most of the time depending on the wind condtions. T
he best way I can describe the difference between casting with a conventional reel and spinning is that you release you're thumb from you reel as you accelerate the centrical force you're casting with very early in the casting motion. It feels to me like you can generate more power with a conventional reel because you are in touch with that accelerating power motion much longer than with a fixed spool reel, which release very suddenly.
One final thing the weight of the lubricant you use has everything to do with how easily the reel will over spin. Start out with the heavier stuff and got thinner a little bit at a time. A real reel good place to start is with the XS oil that Trey has as Hatteras Outfitters. Or if that's too thin pack the end caps with silicone grease. By the way Trey can cast over 200 yards and catches big red drum out of the surf frequently.
No Worries, Rich
Having just taken up the conventional reel in the past 5 years or so and finding it far more sensitive and in touch with what's going on in the water than a spinning outfit I'm finding it hard to go back to what I did for so many years -- spin. At first I struggled like everyone else with the tangled nest that ends the days fishing unless you have a spare reel on hand.
I've fished with different reels but the bottom lines are tension on the spool so that it won't spin faster than the offering is thrown, which is accomplished with the spool end cap or caps depending on the reel (Always start with slightly more tension than you think you'll need and throw soft casts to start backing off the tension in minute increments, while putting a little more of your back into it as you proceed.)
&
balance you offering to the rod reel and line weight so it isn't over or under loaded. Better to start with a lighter offering and build up.
I fish open water most of the time and have to cover as much as possible so I lean into my casts pretty hard even though I don't throw much weight. I use a shock leader about twice as long as my rod that twice the test of my main line to keep from breaking off during casting. I'm a side armer throwing 1/2 to 1 1/2 ounces with 4 to 15 lb. main line most of the time depending on the wind condtions. T
he best way I can describe the difference between casting with a conventional reel and spinning is that you release you're thumb from you reel as you accelerate the centrical force you're casting with very early in the casting motion. It feels to me like you can generate more power with a conventional reel because you are in touch with that accelerating power motion much longer than with a fixed spool reel, which release very suddenly.
One final thing the weight of the lubricant you use has everything to do with how easily the reel will over spin. Start out with the heavier stuff and got thinner a little bit at a time. A real reel good place to start is with the XS oil that Trey has as Hatteras Outfitters. Or if that's too thin pack the end caps with silicone grease. By the way Trey can cast over 200 yards and catches big red drum out of the surf frequently.
No Worries, Rich
Casting with the reel handles up will give your wrist more range of motion than when the reel is horizontal. You may find that something midway between the two extremes works better for you. The P-41 should be fine. You will generally find that it is easier to cast the heavier weights without backlashing. Make sure you don't sneeze in the middle of a cast. Good luck!
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ABUBO
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Leave your spinning outfit at home
Hi Pete,
I learned it using a AMB 6001-C over a single weekend when fishing in Sweden some 10 years back. Today I'm far from being a baitcasting expert but I think I manage ok. And now to my point of view on this:
Basicaly it's learning by doing!
Next time you go fishing you will have to leave the 'old' spinning outfit at home and bring only baitcasters. Two or more reels as a spare reel is always nice to have when the bird-nesting get's too heavy
Like this foot wear cpny is known for ... Just do it!
Have fun
Cheers,
Bo
I learned it using a AMB 6001-C over a single weekend when fishing in Sweden some 10 years back. Today I'm far from being a baitcasting expert but I think I manage ok. And now to my point of view on this:
Basicaly it's learning by doing!
Next time you go fishing you will have to leave the 'old' spinning outfit at home and bring only baitcasters. Two or more reels as a spare reel is always nice to have when the bird-nesting get's too heavy
Like this foot wear cpny is known for ... Just do it!
Have fun
Cheers,
Bo