Fin Nor Golden Royal 12 ~Drag~

[Halcyon]

The reel is balanced incredibly well. The spool with no line on it will spin silently for nearly 30 seconds with drive gear disengaged (Off position) and the line alarm retracted. Everything functions in the thing perfectly (butter) except the drag. I would have engineered it much differently than theymanufacture did. Two surfaces running on eachother without a series of alternate fiber and metal washers to dampen the tension seems a kinda gross aproach from a reel company with the gall to give the reel such a grandios title, No?

So does anybody have any tips on smoothing it out? It's in a word -- rough. Should it run dry? Is grease a proper option? The rest of the engineering in the reel makes sense to me. It's very straghtforward to service and will obvious hold to to some seriously heavy use.

Maybe there's some tricks. I sure open to learning something new.

Good Fishin' & Better Catchin', Rich

[SWIM JIG]

jump jump usa , Rich sent that reel to the (ZEBCO COMPNY 6505 Tower lane , Claremore Oklahoma 74017) atten Carol Grisham her email is( ) she is in Consumer service, Zebco now owns FIN NOR, their Phone # is ( 1-800-444-5581 ext 6208) tell her That Col. Milt Lorens sent your Question to her! Your drags do need a tune up, I dont work on many Spinnig reels , I am more into the larger Troling reels. Even as a ZEBCO Warenty Center I dont have those parts on hand as of yet! There is a way of modifying the drags so they are very smooth! Your Ohio Conection On Lake ERIE Col. Milton Lorens aka SWIM JIG

[Dr. Rob]

Yes.

I speak drag. HT-100, Cal's, thermal conductivity, static vs dynamic, belleville, Smooth, fade, tribology, opposing surface... words like that.

I too deal exclusively with offshore lever-drag reels. However, I'm not sure what is going on. The Royal seems to be the predecessor of the Regal. And "Two surfaces running on eachother without a series of alternate fiber and metal washers to..." sounds peculiar. Yes, that is the way it is usually done. A rudimentary slipping clutch. Very few lever-drag reels use more than one or two drag washers. What, are you missing even the one drag washer?

The wet-vs-dry debate rages on; it has long been an issue. Suffice here and now to say that regardless of sophisticated argument, the drag should NOT be lubricated with anything other than a lubricant specifically designed for that purpose. (there are only two) Some hocus-pocus tricks may apply as an alternative, but they are usually case-specific.

Come back with more info. Like the overall condition of the existant drag washers for example; maybe a pic or schematic. (think I have most of FNs schematics, but anyway)

Doc.

[Halcyon]

Could be that the drag assembly isn't complete.

I'll send it in to the folks in Oklahoma. There's little else I can do. Seems there needs to be at least on washer that slips inside there.

Thanx, Rich

[Halcyon]

Hey Dr. Rob,

Do you have a schematic for this reel?

If so what does the drag washer set-up look like?

Thanx, Rich

[Dr. Rob]

You would know the drag washer if you saw it.

I think this thread will help you quite a lot. Start with this and see if it gets you on track. Not sure I agree entirely with methodology, but it got the job done good.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thre ... =1#M717558

I'll see about the schematic. The name Royal doesn't mean anything to me; FN used letter prefixes for model designations. Is this a Regal (FNL series) we're talking about?

[Dr. Rob]

Also, here is Bradley / Zebcos comment on service for FN. This + Milt Lorens may be your ticket.

---------------------------------------


W.C. Bradley/Zebco Holdings has recently completed the purchase of Fin-Nor, and it is our goal to provide you with the very best customer service possible. However, not all products previously manufactured under the name Fin-Nor will continue to be supported from either a new build or service stand point.
Items no longer supported are:
PRIMEO: 1000,2000,3000,4000
ESTIMA: ES50UL, ES100 - ES600
FIN-ITE: F201 - F304
FIN-NOR LITE: S50UL, S100 - S600
QUESTLITE: QL1000 - QL4000
QUESTLITE GOLD: QLG1000 - QLG4000
INSHORE: ISX2000 - ISX6000
STEEL RIVER: SR1000 - SR4000
TYCOON: TYS7-1 through TYS7-4, TYS5-100 through TYS5-400
The following products will be supported from a service standpoint. Service support on each of these items presents differing opportunities by model, thus we have developed item-specific service programs for each model in this list. Please contact us at the toll-free number below to learn more about the service program that is unique to your Fin-nor product.
Support programs are available on these products:
AHAB: 8A, 12A, 16A, 20A, LD12 - LD80-2
FIN-ITE/FIN-ITE II: 23CL - 1012
MEGA LITE: ML1000 - ML4000
BIG GAME TROLLING: 120FNSP, 120FNSTD, 120FTRI, 25FNA - 90FNA, 50FLN, 60WFNA, 75FNA
You are important to us as both a past and future Fin-nor consumer. Please do not hesitate to call Fin-Nor Customer Service with any questions you may have, our contact information is listed below.
When returning your Fin-Nor product, the following information is required to process the service:
1. Provide your Name and Address, telephone, fax number or e-mail address.
2. Properly package the product so there is no further damage during shipping.
3. Insure the package and send it pre-paid to the Fin-Nor Repair Department.
(No COD shipments will be accepted)
4. To expedite the repair, give a credit card number in your description letter.
5. Check or money order is also acceptable.
6. Any charges incurred will include freight charges.
All packages should be shipped to our facility:
Fin-Nor Repair Department
6505 Tower Lane
Claremore, OK 74019-4429
NOTE: Repairs will be returned via UPS, unless other arrangements are made prior to shipment. We will not ship to a P.O. Box, please provide a UPS delivery address (street address).
Any repairs not paid for will be disposed of after 30 days from the date listed on the notification letter.
Fin-Nor Customer Service can be reached via:
E-Mail:
Phone: 1-800-588-9030

[Halcyon]

Hi Dr. Rob,

The Link was the trick. I'll just get myself a shimano carbon fiber washer and do the same trick but I shim it with a home made copper or brass washer from some sheet stock to get it to the right thickness. I'm sure it'll be the ticket. I have some other ideas that I think would work but it would be too complex to fabricate.

Thank!

[Dr. Rob]

Okay. You can use the Shim drag washer if you like or maybe something from Penn. Contact me if all else fails. Or one of your local SoCal tuners. Or Zebco HQ.

Not so sure about making a shim washer... making a completely flat disc is not as easy as it seems. What are your other ideas?

Included is a schematic for a FNL 12, which may be similar to your reel; we still don't know. (something cool about Fin-Nors shematics is that they always include the proper screw sizes)



12 FNL FIN-NOR LIGHT TROLLING REEL

No. PART NAME PART No.
1 FRONT HOUSING SUBASSY 20FN30S
2 HOUSING SUBASSY 20FN29S
4 REEL SEAT 20FN14
5 6-32X1/4 FH 6-32X1/4
7 CRANK HANDLE ARM ASSY 50FN2A
8 CRANK HANDLE WASHER 50FN231
9 CRANK LOCK NUT 20FN13
10 CRANK LOCK NUT SET SCREW 20FN228
11 CRANK DRIVE GEAR 20FN96
12 PINION GEAR BRAKE DISK AS 20FN125A
13 CAM RISER 20FN221
14 STUD CAP 6FN1
15 BRAKE CONTROL LEVER ASSY 20FN77A
16 S.S. BALL 12FN89
17 DETENT SPRING 4SR170
18 DETENT SCREW 30FN243
19 QUADRANT 20FN47
20 QUADRANT HEX SCREW 5-40X5/16
21 SPOOL SHAFT 20FN154
22 DISHED WASHER (4) 20FN159
23 S.S. BALL BEARING A33K5
24 SPOOL THRUST SPRING 20FN149
25 SPOOL-BRAKE LINING ASSY 20FN148A
26 PAWL STUD 20FNF168
27 PAWL 20FN34
28 PAWL SPRING 20FN40
29 5-40X3/16 BH 5-40X1/4
30 5-40X1/4 BH 5-40X3/16
31 SIGNAL PLUNGER 50FN66
32 SIGNAL PLUNGER SPRING 50FN68
33 SIGNAL KNOB 50FN63
34 ROLLED PIN 50FN138
35 PRESET KNOB ASSY 20FN73A
36 5-40X1/4 OH 5-40X1/4
37 5-40X1/4 BH 5-40X1/4
38 10-24X1-3/4 ROD CLAMP STUD 10-24X1-3/4
39 HEX NUT 10-24 H.MAC.N
40 ROD CLAMP ASSEMBLY 2.5FN16A
41 10-24 ACORN NUT (2) 10-24 ACORN NUT
42 5-40X1/4 FH 5-40X1/4
43 S.S. BALL BEARING AS3K

[Reel Geezer]

I think it is interesting how so many of the "modern" round reels have frames that are made in one piece. Shimano Calcutta, Daiwa Millionaires, and here we see Fin-Nors. I guess many of them are forged or milled from modern aluminum alloys but I think Gus Meisselbach would appreciate the resemblance to his 1906 Take Apart reels.

Nothin's New.

[Dr. Rob]

Thanks for saying that, Geezer. Agreed. Every time I write something about how seldom is anything in reels truly new, people always get all bent out of shape and start blaring about the boistrous ads for this-and-that reel, new this, patended that.

I think that's why I like this forum; a firm historical reference.

[Halcyon]

Hi Dr. Rob,

Yep this is the reel. Thanx a lot mate! The blow up doesn't detail that the fiber friction washer that's affixed to the same side of the spool as the brake disc but it identified as the "spool brake lining assembly" which what right.

Anyway, to do the custom drag work that I invision I'd need more sophisticated machinery that I have at my disposal. But to answer you question directly Doc, what I see working well is first a concentric grove cut in the brake disc to allow a retainer ring that is fixed to the spool will fit into. This retainer ring would be fixed or part of a washer ( a sort of open very shallow can) that is fused to the spool much like the carbon washer in the link above was installed. This will allow a series of metal and friction washers to be placed inside the retainer ring. and even keyed into a couple of slots in in it much the way many modern conventional reels have their washer stack keyed. With the retainer ring keyed into the brake disc the washers would stay put nicely with the reel in free spool mode. It's not a project I can embark on. It's just one that I can concieve, being possessed as I am by a mind that is compelled to address such problems even as I sleep.

Good Fishin' & Better Catchin', Rich

[Steve]

I think Gus Meisselbach would appreciate the resemblance to his 1906 Take Apart reels.

George Palmer, in turn, would have appreciated the resemblance of the drum-frame Take Apart reels to his own creation:

(Pat. 281,918)

[FSREPAIR]

Halcyon,

Customizing a new drag stack to replace to missing fiber disk is not likely to work very well. The reason is that unless the drag stack you are thinking about making is the same thickness as the missing fiber washer the drag and the free spool will not work as it was designed to. I maybe wrong but the original fiber drag disk that was glued to the spool simply wore off. The thickness of fiber disk was probably about 1/16". I got a Shakespeare Wondertroll 30 last year and the fiber disk was gone but I could still see where it had been glued to the spool. I cleaned up the area on the spool where the fiber disk had been and went to an auto parts store and bought some rubberized cork gasket material that was slightly thicker the original fiber disk. Got home, measured the diameter of the drag disk on a Ted Williams Trolling reel which used the same parts, and using a protractor drew two circles on the gasket material for the OD and ID for the fiber disk. Then I simply cut the new drag disk out and glued in onto the spool. I assembled the reel and checked out the operation of the drag and free spool lever. The new fiber disk was a little thicker and the reel did not work as it should. Took the reel a part and sanded down the new drag disk and once I got it down to the correct thickness, assembled the reel and it works very well. If I had it to do over again I would have used cork gasket material instead of the rubberized cork material. Randy

[Brian F.]

Maybe I need to take a patent out on my signature line:

[Dr. Rob]

Well Halcyon, what you describe is perfectly feasible from a mechanical point of view; it's almost exactly what I did to make a few double-your-drag kits for the Everol 12-20 a few years ago. (because I DO have such resources) It's also a lot like a motorcycle clutch, and it's also a lot like



..but what Randy just said is also true. There is usually a lot of dimensional constraint involved, and tampering with one measurement almost invariably screws up another. The Everols just happen to have a lot of room available.

I second the motion that Rubberized cork was maybe not the best, but you got the job done, Randy.

[Reel Geezer]

Every time I write something about how seldom is anything in reels truly new, people always get all bent out of shape and start blaring about the boistrous ads for this-and-that reel, new this, patended that.

Dr. Rob. It's not just reels, it's rods, lures, terminal tackle, etc. Nothin's New, as Steve so aptly illustrated. I am currently writing a column for another web site titled "Nothin's New", and will reprint the articles on my own Old Fishing Stuff web site after they appear.

[Halcyon]

I got a couple of Pen 6-320 LD Carbon washers from Mikes Reel repair up in Canada for twenty bucks. I dug out the old fiber washer that was fused to the spool very carefully so as not to spoil the nice blued finish of the reel spool. It came off nicely with careful scraping. Once the spool was clean all I had to do was file down the outside of the pen washers with a half round *bass with mustard* file until they dropped into the recessed area in the spool. The thickness of the two stacked together is very close to the orginial washer. The fit into recess so nicely that I don't feel any need to cement them in place. I'm sure they will tension nicely against the spool, themselves and the brass pressure plate. The reel spins just as perfectly as ever, all functions work perfectly and I can't imagine the reel working better when it was brand new. Instead of have a 1/4" of the radius working on the pressure plate I have about 3/4" inch now. Sure feels sweet ~ Can't wait to get and albacore on it. Thanks for the tips and the schematic guys.
I'm consulting with a friend who fishes Blue Marlin professionally for advice and what to spool it with. Any suggests are welcome of course.

Good Fishin' & Better Catchin, Rich