Abu Garcia Suveran Center Drag reels

jmjftw · Post by **jmjftw** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:34 pm

I searched the site and didn't find anything so I thought that I would post something about this reel.

I've got one of the S4000M size and really like it. Does anyone else use them?

The Center drag works great and they are very smooth.
Here are some of the specs.
Gear ratio 5.2:1
12lb /180 yds
weight 13.6 oz
one piece extruded aluminum frame
7 stainless steel bearings
Stainless steel worm gear system
Made in Sweden.

Great web site, I'm glad I found you guys...smiles

Dr. Rob · Post by **Dr. Rob** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:03 pm

YES!

Absolutely brilliant mechanical conception. Or well, pretty darn decent anyway. The Abu guys deserve huge cred for getting this reel out there. (And I was going to say something about how great it was of them to have invented the concept, but we just discussed that on another thread. Anybody know if they are the first?)

Not sure really what it's doing on a mostly antique & collecor reel site, but yeah... The Suveräns are suveräna indeed.

FSREPAIR · Post by **FSREPAIR** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:45 pm

The center drag used on the Suveran spin reels is not a new concept. I know of two earlier spin reels and two semi closed-faced spin reels which used a center drag. The two spin reels are the Swiss made Staros and the US made Uslans. The two semi closed-faced reels are the Taggart Model 10 and the Heddon Model 200. The Suveran reels of course use a more sophisticated drag stack of several synthetic and steel disks while the older reels used a simple single large drag washer and drag plate. Another misnomer is the modern concept for the infinite anti-reverse used in many reels today. The designs are different on the older reels but they accomplished the same thing by eliminating the need for an anti-reverse dog. Randy

jmjftw · Post by **jmjftw** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:46 am

Dr. Rob wrote:
Not sure really what it's doing on a mostly antique & collecor reel site, but yeah... The Suveräns are suveräna indeed.

I'm sorry. This was my first post, maybe I read this wrong?

"The purpose of the Old Reel Collector’s Association, Inc. is education through the collection and distribution of historical and technical data regarding fishing reels, their development and their inventors and manufacturers from the earliest times through the present day. In order to enhance the knowledge of these subjects, the collection and preservation of examples of post production reels is to be encouraged for the benefit of present and future generations..."

Reel Geezer · Post by **Reel Geezer** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:16 am

I don't know if this is the exact model you are discussing as I don't really keep up on spinning reels, but Pure Fishing has a center drag reel in their closeout store, Fisherman's Factory Outlet. You can get a center drag reel for 50% off at: http://www.ffo-tackle.com/detail.cfm?PassProdId=850

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:29 am

For the benefit of some of us ignorami:
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/ ... p?t=371548

Where do you think that oscillating "cross line lay" system came from?

Dr. Rob · Post by **Dr. Rob** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:45 am

jmjftw, hey- no offense I hope; all and everything is welcome. Just not very often new reels come up here, that's all.

Nice link there Steve. Wow. I'm gonna read that a few times.

Did notice though, that the Suverän is said to be made in Sweden. Okay. But I have an Abu Center Drag , forget the model designation, that must be the low-cost budgie version of the Suverän, because it just ain't suverän.

My colleague Tunatoys just sent me two of the largest reels in the CD family for renovation. They're thrashed. He uses them for Tarpon. Will see if they're still suveräna inside. His main complaint is frame flex at the foot. The frame can't really take all that drag without flexing. (He's right) We'll see what can be done about it.

Before I email the guy who designed it, does anyone know if that frame is interchangeable with a stronger version?

jmjftw · Post by **jmjftw** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:14 am

Dr. Rob wrote:jmjftw, hey- no offense I hope; all and everything is welcome. Just not very often new reels come up here, that's all.

Nice link there Steve. Wow. I'm gonna read that a few times.

Did notice though, that the Suverän is said to be made in Sweden. Okay. But I have an Abu Center Drag , forget the model designation, that must be the low-cost budgie version of the Suverän, because it just ain't suverän.

My colleague Tunatoys just sent me two of the largest reels in the CD family for renovation. They're thrashed. He uses them for Tarpon. Will see if they're still suveräna inside. His main complaint is frame flex at the foot. The frame can't really take all that drag without flexing. (He's right) We'll see what can be done about it.

Before I email the guy who designed it, does anyone know if that frame is interchangeable with a stronger version?

Not at all, I thought that I may have posted in the wrong forum.

I have one of the Fisherman's Factory Outlet center drag reels and it is "flexy". The Suveran reels being forged don't feel the same and seam to work very well.
I just think that they are rather interesting and very well made.

FSREPAIR · Post by **FSREPAIR** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:38 pm

The reel model on sale at the Fisherman's Factory Outlet is a Center Drag. The model number is CD1000S4W. They are nothing like the Suveran reels except for the center drag. The frames will not interchange. Even though they look similar the frames are made differently.

As far as what company made the first spin reel with worm gears or as Allan say screw gears I am not sure. Alcedo came out in 1945 with the Omnia but the first Hardy Altex came out in 1932. Abu's first Cardinals using worm gears did not come out until the mid 1960s. There were lots of older European spin reels made with worm gears. Some of first US reels to have worm gears were the Bradco # 53 & 54 in 1952, the Langley Spinlite R810 in 1954, Shakespeare Sea Wonder in 1958, & Penn Spinfisher in 1961. Randy

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:19 pm

Before we give some posthumous award to the first maker to use a worm gear in a fishing reel, consider that the pairing of a cog wheel and a worm gear (also called an "endless screw") was invented by Archimedes, ca. 250 B.C.

, and used by Greek engineers for various machines during the next few centuries. It might be more fruitful to ask why reelmakers took so long to adopt the mechanism.

FSREPAIR · Post by **FSREPAIR** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:21 pm

Steve, Allan Hawk answered that question in his review, cost and skilled machining. That is also one of the main reasons why there are very few spin reels made with worm gears today. Even though labor is so cheap in China reel companies still do not want to spend substantially more for a set of worm gears. When made right these gears will last a lifetime in a reel designed to use them. That is simply not the way most spin reels are made anymore. Randy

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:21 pm

Good point, Randy. One basis of my question is the fact that a lot of conventional reels had been employing helical gears for the better part of a century before the aforementioned spinning reels had even been invented. The spool would turn on an axis parallel to the cranking axis. Okay, the worm gear transmits at a 90-degree angle to the cranking axis. But is it that much more labor-intensive or expensive to machine a worm gear on a rod than a helical gear on the edge of a disc? I have no idea.

FSREPAIR · Post by **FSREPAIR** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:27 pm

Steve,

There is a new US made spin reel made down in Missiouri called the Ray Scott Super caster 225. When it first came out a couple of years ago I talked to Fred Kemp the guy who designed and built the reel. He told me that the cost of the making the worm gears are the most expensive part on the whole reel. The teeth on the drive gears are also spiraled which takes more time to machine. The selling price for a Shakespeare Sea Wonder 2090 in 1959 was $47.50. That was a pretty good chunk of change in those days. Randy

jmjftw · Post by **jmjftw** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:39 pm

FSREPAIR wrote:Steve,

There is a new US made spin reel made down in Missiouri called the Ray Scott Super caster 225. When it first came out a couple of years ago I talked to Fred Kemp the guy who designed and built the reel. He told me that the cost of the making the worm gears are the most expensive part on the whole reel. The teeth on the drive gears are also spiraled which takes more time to machine. The selling price for a Shakespeare Sea Wonder 2090 in 1959 was $47.50. That was a pretty good chunk of change in those days. Randy

From what I understand, worm gears wear in and improve with prolonged service versus other gear configurations which wear out with prolonged service.

Two or more teeth are in contact with the worm at all times, transmitting power by a continuous, quiet and shockless action. As a result, the flow of torque is smooth and free from angular velocity changes "Cranking the reels handle" , thus eliminating vibration and other customary gear noises.

Worm gears have to be hobbed or cut on special gear cutting machines using hobbs to form the gear. A tooth form is designed such that the gear teeth operate under a crushing, rather than a bending load.
For this reason, extremely high momentary and shock loads, damaging to many forms of gearing, can be successfully withstood. Also, high momentary overloads will seldom cause failure.

Dr. Rob · Post by **Dr. Rob** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:27 am

Actually they're called crossed-axis helical gears. They're the same as parallel-axis helical gears with a 45 degree helix angle. Tooth form is involute, sometimes corrected.

Yes, helicals are hobbed. Some other methods are used, but usually hobbing is best. Mathematically, helicals are vastly more complex than spur or worm gears. Once the hobber is set up correctly it doesn't take any longer to make the gear. Making the blank takes much longer.

Disc or cylinder? A disc is the same as a very short cylinder.

gotta run

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:14 pm

Crossed-Axis Helical Gears (CAHG) in a conventional reel driven by a rod-mounted electric motor. Patent applied for in 1925.