SHAKESPEARE Marhoff dates Help

[Dale Noll]

Can anyone help with a list of years the 1964 Shakespeare Marhoff was made? When were reels 1st made with the Shakespeare name? The earliest I've seen was dated 1912 on eBay, but did not win.

Thanks for any help.
Dale.

[Harvey]

Dale,
William bought Walter out on Jan.7, 1907 so it would be my guess that a 1910 woild be the earliest Shakespeare marked reel. A '14 is the earliest one I got but I think Len has some earlier. The agreement was to mark them "Marhoff Patent" for twenty years so the first "Marhoff" reel would have to been around 1928. It does appear in the 1910 catalogue but nothing is said about it being a "Patented" version. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen that stated in any catalogue. All it says is that it is an "Improved" version of the Marhoff reel and that held true all the way thru.
"H".

[Dale Noll]

Thanks Harvey,
A 1914 model is my earliest also. The tailplate is marked as follows:

MARHOFF PATENT
LEVEL
WINDING REEL

The number 1964 is imprinted at the 6'oclock position.


The foot (inside the oval logo) is marked:

1914 MODEL PATENTED 100YDS
W.S.JR. CO
KALAMAZOO, MICH
- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Also on one end of the foot is a stamped name: E. KOGLER
The handle is also stamped E. Kogler.

Don't know if the Kogler name is significant or not with respect to Shakespeare, but the stamp imprint looks to be the same style and size.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Now, I have checked a 1918 which has the same tailplate marking, but diffeent foot marking. The 1918 foot (inside the oval logo) is marked:

SHAKESPEARE CO KALAMAZOO
100 YDS
PATENTED
1918 MODEL

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

To further clarify, I have also checked a 1924. The foot marking is the same as the 1918, except for date. However, the Tailplate now has the Shakespeare Honor Built Oval logo with the following:

MARHOFF PATENT
LEVEL
WINDING REEL
NO. 1964

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The 1930 Model shows significant change. No rim drag. Foot marking has no logo, but still stamped as follows:

MODEL 30
100 YDS
PATENTED
MADE IN U.S.A.

The Tailplate now has the Shakespeare name in the Oval logo and marked as follows:

SHAKESPEARE
MARHOFF
LEVEL WINDING
NO. 1964

Harvey, Guess, your 20 yr estimate agrees with the data. Seems there was a very significant change in 1930. The MARHOFF PATENT wording was dropped on the 1930 Tailplate. I do not have any reels between 1926 and 1930. Also, have not found any reels for 1931,1932, & 1933.

Any help on other dates these reels were made would sure be welcome.
Thanks in advance.

Dale.

[Jack Bright]

I have one that says 1910 model and serial No.2181 on foot(in logo) and
has a CBH. Any help here ? Or did I muddy the water ?

[Jack S]

Like Jack's reel my 1912 has the serial no. in the logo on the foot. And like Dale's 1914 reel the tailplate is stamped "MARHOFF PATENT LEVEL WINDING REEL" above the jeweled cap and "1964" below the cap. It has an unusual set up for the pawl which I can try to photograph if anyone would be interested. My verbal description couldn't do it justice!

Jack S

[Dale Noll]

Jack B.
Sounds like the Tailplate of your 1910 is marked like my 1914, but on the foot, your reel has a SN inside the Shakespeare logo. My Kogle name is not inside the Shakespeare logo, but on the forward end of the foot. Where is S/N in logo? Photo would surely be of interest. Is the crank marked?

Jack S.
Your 1912 reel seems similar the JB's 1910, but because of the CBH and the unusual Pawl, it may be a rare transision reel. My 1914 also has those small jeweled oilcaps.

Would sure like to see photos of the paul and foot marking as to how the Serial Numbers are placed in the Shakespeare Logo.

Thanks for any info.
Dale.

[Harvey]

Dale,
Don't get too excited about a "Transitional Reel' because it has a CBH and a different style of pawl. You could order a reel with any handle you desired and with or with our Jewels. I layed the 1914, 1918, 1919 1922 and the Marhoff Reel Company reel all together and there is little if any changes amoung them. The changes in the markings on the foot is easly explained. Before 1916, the company was known as the "William Shakespeare Jr. Company". In 1916 the company name changed to the "Shakespeare Products Company", thus a oval change. Again in 1922 another name change. The company became just the "Shakespeare" . Correcxt me if I am wrong but at that change, the oval went from the foot to the tail plate. As for the Pawl changes. I have looked at other style reels from the same timeframe (1912 to 1922) and there is no set pattern as to what style was used on them from year to year so I would suggest that the same is true for the Marhoff. Since the design of the level wind is baisicly the same and the same parts could be used in almost all of the standard production reels of this era, I would think it is a case of what ever was avaiable at the time was used. Of the Marhoff's that I have inspected, I can see three different styles used and all are common to other reels. I would also like to see the Pawl style that Jack S. is refering to and where the serial number is stamped.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Hope this helps a little.
"H"

[Harvey]

PS:

Len could solve all this banter since he has most of the models and has researched them in the past.
LEN!

[fishbugman]

I have 1910 and 1912 Marhoff Patent reels both with counterweighted handles, but neither has a serial number. The 1912 looks uniform throughout, but I also had a feeling the 1910 model was cobbled together from various parts as the metal parts do not all have same wear.

As unique as the early Marhoff was with its distinct place in levelwind history, it is very difficult to find one with a flawless handle side plate. Those plates were probably the most fragile part on any fishing reel made prior to 1935. As with the spacers on Shakespeare Standards and Professionals of the same period, most are nicked, chipped, scaled and cracked...very hard to find one without.

[Jack S]

Here's a pic of the foot of my 1912 Marhoff. I think you can see the serial number in the Shakespeare oval where the size (yardage) is usually located.

And here are a few pics of my "unusual" pawl (at least I haven't seen another like it).

The pawl (far right piece in last pic) fits in a "barrel" (middle piece in last pic) and is held in the line guide by the screw (far left piece in last pic). I told you my verbal descriptions were worthless! I'll apologize to Len and Harvey for thinking that pawl is something out-of-the-ordinary. It probably isn't unusual to somebody that's knowledgeable of Will Jr. and his work. Any questions?

Jack S

[Len Sawisch]

Where to start . . .I do have an extensive collection of Marhoff related reels - 60 or so.

The Marhoff Co. reels are very tuff to find and are usually beat pretty bad cuz they worked pretty good. Taken apart, they look like a really well-made East Coast reel. It seems when Will bought out the patents, they started cheapening up right away - but mostly on the inside.

I have to check again to be sure but I have a Shakespeare Marhoff pre-1910, a 1910, a 1910 re-stamped 1912, a 1912, 1914, 1918, 1919, 1922, 1924, 1926, 19? (unmarked but I believe it to be circa 1928), 1930, 1931, 1932 (both the regulars and the gold plates), and then it is into the Letter codes.

I believe Harvey is correct on the handle situation, with maybe the Marhoff Co reels only available with the CBH with screwed on counter balance weight and 'fat' hour glass knob. Into the early twenties, the double handles seem to have been the longer style (more power; more likely to bust your knuckles)

I will check that Jack S pawl deal tonight - I have noticed the style from the outside but never took it apart for the detail in Jack's shot - very cool.

I am planning on pulling all the Marhoff info together in an illistrated paper, and Eric Jeska and I have been threatening to collaborate for years. We are happy to include any and all interested co-collaboraters!

Let me refresh my memory tonight and I will post more detail later.

Len

[Harvey]

I concure with everybody. My 1914 Shakespeare Marhoff has the same Pawl as Jack's. My Marhoff Reel Co. reel has the same handle that Len describes. The other changes as seen from the outside is in the knurling on the click wheel as picture shows. The Shakespeare reel is the straight pattern while the Marhoff has the checkerd pattern. The Marhoff is also a little larger. Check yours Len.
"H"


EDIT:
Forgot! Len, I do have that Model 31A. No changes from the Mod.31 and the "A" looks to be an afterstamp as it is not lined up perferctly with the 31. It is not in very good shape buy would be more than glad to send it to you for inspection if needed.
"H"

[Dale Noll]

My 1914 has a regular pawl, and the thumb nob has straight grooves. However, it does have the name E.KOGLER stamped on the foot and on the larger twin nob crank. Possibly a transition job!

Thanks to all for providing above info. From the info. So far, no models reels have been reported for the years 11,13,15,16,17,20,21,23,25,27, & 29.

Dale

[Len Sawisch]

Dale,

I think you have the right years listed for when a 'new' model Marhoff was not listed.

On the other hand, I am not sure what you mean about a transition reel? I would guess that having a name stamped on a reel (and/or handle) was a sign of ownership, not an indication of a prototype or a mid point in a model change-over.

In my limited experience, the 'protoype' or 'tansition' reels I have seen generally have less writing or stamping.

As soon as my home PC stops fritzing, I will throw on a few pics to continue this discusssion.

[Harvey]

Dale,
As Len suggested, the dates that you list are dates that I have never seen stamped on a reel. The 1919 reel that I have is an overstamp of a 1918. Why? Don't have any idea. It seems that Shakespeare had a habit of changing model numbers every two years even though the reel never changed. I believe this to be a marketing ploy to make the angler/buyer into thinking that he or she was getting the latest model avaiable. The name that is stamped on your reel (E.KOGLER) is more than likely the name of the person that purchased the reel. For an extra buck, I think Will would have put your picture on one if so desired.
I must also retract a statement that I made in an earlier post. The pawl on my 1914 is of the larger size but is not like Jack's. It is one piece. Maybe we should turn the Pawl-fesser. Alan Baracco, loose on this one. My 1914 also has small jeweled bearing caps on it that fit inside the spring retainers instead of outside. (pictures if needed)
"H"

[Dale Noll]

Just used the word transition to indicate an oddity. Checked all my other reels for names, and have a beautiful 1922 Marhoff which is almost mint with a engraved, not stamped, marking as follows:

F.W.J
MADISON WISC.

Engraved on Tailplate at 3'oclock - expertly engraved, probably by Jeweler. I have no other pre 1940 Shakespeare reels with names stamped or engraved.

Dale.