The pics below show some unusual features of a ball-handle and an S-handle, probably made before 1860. The pinions are fastened to round spool shafts using a wire pin (left) and a flat cut into the shaft. Most of these old clunkers have pinions with square holes that fit onto squared sections of spool shafts.
In addition, the main gear shafts of these two reels end in stubs that rotate in holes in the headplates. The S-handle reel has a bushing for the stub.
Does anyone have reels with similar features? It would help if we could see some photos, but even if we can't, descriptions of the reels and any markings would help to ID these things.
Yo Steve-I am absolutely no help to you on these reels, and to prove it I am going to ask a truly basic question. What about these or any similar reels is convincing evidence they are of NY origin? Were not any similar brass jobbies made in old England-or other parts of New England for that matter? Naive in Tennessee, Bad Bob
Yo Bob, good question. "New York" usually refers to a style, but that's because almost all of the known makers of those ball handles and S-handles before the Civil War were from NY--Conroy, Crook, F. Vom Hofe, et maybe some al. There are very, very few folks who definitely are known to have made any reels at all back then. I don't know of any evidence that the Ky. makers made that style of reel.
It's hard to see, but the frame of the ball-handle in the pic (with the reddish main gear) is held together with wire pins, not the usual nuts on threaded pillar ends, as shown in the other reel. George Snyder, copying the British method, also used wire pin fasteners. So the ball-handle is pretty old.
Despite our woeful ignorance about the origins of reelmaking in the U.S., I'm sure that we'll be able to add other names to our list of very early makers, and maybe this thread will help.
Thanks for your input, Mr. Hinder X. Everyone knows that Fred M. was, at most, a wee bairn when the S-handle was made, and probably not yet even a twinkle in daddy's eye when the ball handle was made.
Point is, Malleson's name should be dropped, and you should stick with Conrook Vom; it's more accurate.
Steve, I think I had sent you pic's of this last year, but since I'm working towards my geezer degree (a ways away, but I'm getting a good start) I can't remember. So, here it is. Each of the three pillars are fastened with pins:
No markings anywhere, and I think it's much too early to blame on Malleson, though I like the Conrook Vom. Can we add Clerk? Conrook Vom Clerk - nice ring to it!
Jim
Jim, my geezerhood's in full bloom, as Ed will confirm. I know I emailed this pic during the last half year or so, but I can't remember the recipient. The reel is fairly conventional but has a half-crank and a foot like the one on your wire-pin reel. Nevertheless, the gears are mounted like those on the majority of these old things, i.e., like the gears in your reel.
(Yes, you did email those pics to me.)
Here's another reel that may be related to the ones above. It's a ball-handle, with the handle mounted on the upper half of the headcap, like the two wire-pin reels. But this headplate, attached with only four screws, can be unfastened and rotated so the handle is mounted at 4 o'clock instead of 10 o'clock. The reel is on the left, Jim's wire-pin reel is on the right:
And here's the headplate:
And here's the pinion, seated on a round spool shaft:
C'mon, folks. Somebody has to have more reels like this, and sooner or later, somebody's going to run into one with a maker mark.
Here is one of my reels which uses pins to hold the two foot posts. The pin work is a bit sloppy but the clicker on this reel has a first class feel. No makers marks but perhaps these pics will give you experts some more clues .
REVISION: More info in next post...
Happy New Year to all jester
Paul M
Last edited by Paul M on Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I was curious and cleaned up this reel only to find artisan marks such as made by Heaton. The handle side looks like a multiplier made by Ustonson, so I am guessing it is an English made reel, not American. There is a "l" mark scratched inside one plate and an"X" scratched inside the other end (both oriented to 6:00 o'clock in the first photo below). Those are the only marks. The crossbar for the reel foot has a built in screw, that connects to the backplate. The other end of the reelfoot crossbar has two posts that are held in place by pins, as illustrated in my prior post. The reel foot is affixed with a central plug plus 6 non-brass pins. The gearing is 27:9, so a perfect 3:1 ratio.
Neat reel, Paul, and it sure does look British. It's that sort of thing that probably inspired George Snyder to make his first reel.
The Roman numerals scratched into various parts were used by lots of reelmakers on both sides of the Atlantic, so they don't denote the work of any particular maker(s). I'll bet your reel predates Heaton, anyway (http://www.reubenheaton.co.uk/history.asp).
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