Pflueger Redifor Question

Robin Sayler · Post by **Robin Sayler** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:11 pm

I picked one up the other day and it says model A on it, what does this mean and what were the other models? Its a really neat reel i hadn't handled one of these before i like the bearing caps they are different than i've seen before. thanks for any help

RAM · Post by **RAM** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:59 am

Young Guy-You got my attention! A reel marked "Pflueger Redifor" and also marked "Model A" ? I collect Redifors and that is new to me. Tell me more Uncle Remus!
Now E.A. Pflueger did make a reel with his Portage Trademark called a "Model A" prior to his return to the Enterprise fold, likely in late 1913. Does your Redifor have the Bulldog trademark on it? That didn't exist until late 1914. E.A.'s bearing caps were different. But no Pflueger Redifor existed during his few years making reels. All interesting. Blanks need filling in! Bad Bob

Robin Sayler · Post by **Robin Sayler** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:19 am

Hello Bob, It does not have a bulldog on it. I'm in class right now but i'll post some pictures this evening. It appears to look like a pflueger redifor but the markings are

Pflueger
Model A
anti-back-lash
Redifor

It has the counter balance handle with the amber knob with the bumpy surface.

the clicker and the drag work great and the sliding buttons are smaller than most on other redifors i've seen pictures of.

Robin

RAM · Post by **RAM** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:33 am

Yo Robin-Fascinating! Pre-Bulldog but marked "Pflueger" and "Model A" and "Redifor". Now it has been assumed by me that the rights to the Redifor were bought by Enterprise likely in late 1914-after E.A. had returned to Enterprise, and NOT by E.A. If all you state is accurate, it may mean that the Redifor rights were bought earlier. Model A is definitely an E.A. Pflueger indicator. Hmmmm! Get back with the pics. The end caps may be critical. Bad Bob

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:47 pm

This is a really, really important find. It is very important for both Pflueger and E.A. Pflueger history, so I can't wait to see pics.

You sure got Bob's attention!

CHeers,

Dr. Todd

SWIM JIG · Post by **SWIM JIG** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:29 pm

jump usa , as for the marking, check it very close! is it die stamped? is it punched in? is it rolled in? Robin, bearing caps can play havic with the mind, as if one was working on a reel, (You saw the RAT HOLE) then if repairing for a user reel and in the need for a bearing cap, screw or worm shaft then us repair people do imprvise, heck , folks will go mad 50-60 years from now when they find some work I have done or other warrenty centers do! Did I not do a reel for you in THE RAT HOLE and adj. a part to fit? A good example of this are (HURD reels reg, and Super caster) no Parts? then you make a bearing cap out of a PENN Bearing cap! is this wrong? depends under what was done to place a reel or rod back into service at the time, to defraud or upgrade for a colector? then in my thoughts its a fraud! Thats why I always mark my work no doubt about it! Pawls are a very good example of this, Shakespere and others interchange , and there are NO MARKINGS on THEM! Gears? well many different gears work in differnt reels, . I have seen out right fraud on a good many reels and thats what gives collecting a bad name! Again We are all hoping you have a rather rare find! If it is, please do a artical in the REEL NEWS! Now unless you College is offering reel studies I sugest you get back to the books AND READ THEM! In 1945 we didnt even have good ball point pens and to measure we used a 12 inch rule and a compas, and a slide rule! Black boards were the norm! ah life was good in those days! Yes we had FLUSH TOILETS, an electric! Your ohio Conection On Lake ERIE COL> Milton Lorens aka SWIM JIG

Robin Sayler · Post by **Robin Sayler** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:57 pm

Ok i'm finally home. Here's the pictures i've been promising all day

This Says
PATENTED
841796-881850
OTHERS PENDING

TOWARDS THE BOTTOM IS # 1059

Post by **john elder** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:53 pm

Younguy...What a sweet little reel! Congrats on a great find! Now, send it to me!

SWIM JIG · Post by **SWIM JIG** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:56 am

jump usa , Robin, the head plate looks like a Buckeye! the 2 butons are in the same place, The handles are the same metal except mine is a bone like material,the head plate screws are a bit different, and I would say the stampings are die stamped, the tail plates are different mine has 5 screws yours have 2 screws on the foot and 3 are threaded piller shafts, my foot has the #60 on it, and screwd to the cross pillers. There are NO exteral #s on my reel, the outside width is 2&3/16 in inside width is 2&7/8ths across, the tail and head plate is 2ins. and the lenght of the foot is 2&3/8ths in long by 1/2 in wide. the brake and tension butons are in the exact place, on the head plate. I cannot tell if your bearing caps adj or just caps to keep dirt out and lubrication in, Mine are just caps no adj. mine is the genaric german silver (NO ACTUAL SILVER) material, it could well be a tool crib or shop non production reel that was found to costly to produce and then the Buckey was the take off production reel! reason for my thought you reel has the expensive screw heads, my buckey has the std screw heads! anyway you have a very nice reel, most likly not too many were made, or was it a ( tool crib reel)? Your ohio Conection on Lake ERIE Col. Milton Lorens aka SWIM JIG

RAM · Post by **RAM** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:57 am

Yo Young Guy-Mystery partially solved! Your reel dates to sometime in 1914 and definitely Enterprise, not E.A. The end cap bearing design is that of pat. no. 1,122,800 applied for 6/18/14 and granted 12/29/14 to Enterprise. No bulldog means little as it came about 11/14. The ser. no. 1059 is low but not meaningfully low unless Enterprise started with no.1000. Now, the other two pats. shown are for the double brace spool flange (Pflueger) and the centrifugal anti-backlash device (Flegel, owned by Upton, Redifor Co. originally). This means Enterprise had likely purchased this pat. early to mid 1914. Since E. A. Pflueger came back in likely late 1913, he may have helped negotiate the deal and put his Model A mark on this and maybe some other reels. A discussion with Nate Dunham makes an interesting point. A detailed magnified inspection of your photo revealed to him that the wording on the face plate is HAND STAMPED. This becomes obvious upon inspection of your photo. I suspect this reel was some sort of protoype before Enterprise decided what to finally put on the face plate. I have seen a bunch of stuff there. As late as 1915 both Enterprise and Redifor were selling the same reel, and some are marked "Warren Ohio". Some have the bulldog at the base of the face plate, etc. More needs to be researched here, but a very nice find!
Bad Bob

Robin Sayler · Post by **Robin Sayler** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:47 pm

I know this is a little far fetched but is it possible that when pflueger started making these reels they started with the serial numbers where redifor left off? This would explain why there are really no low ones? Unless someone has one much much lower marked pflueger, in which case i would like a picture of it. Also does anyone have one with a serial number relativly close to 1059? If so what are the markings as i could only find reference to the markings from the pflueger pfacts book and there is no info before number 1489.

and on a side note i also noticed the number 40 stamped on the inside plate of the head plate and the plate the gear sits on. does this mean anything? We just talked about numbers inside a meek in another thread so i assume these mean the close to the same unless someone else knows better.?

John Savu · Post by **John Savu** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:31 pm

The only Redifor Rod and Reel Co. reels I have seen with serial numbers, are the Redifors of Pflueger they replaced the gears in, installed self thumbers, and stamped Warren, Ohio, on. I have one of those reels that does not have a serial number, the others do, that I have. Redifor made a Model A , according to their 1905 catalog that I have, but it was nothing like this one. The designation A, MAY have carried on. Nice STIMULATING find.
John

RAM · Post by **RAM** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:37 am

Thanks for that input John! It convinces me that E.A. Pflueger was not involved in the Model A thing.
Young Guy-In my conversation with Nate Dunham I think he said he has a Pflueger Redifor with Ser. No 1051 marked with the Bulldog. Hmmmm. He is absolutely convinced yours was hand stamped. The words "Warren Ohio" on some Redifors were also hand stamped. I have a Redifor with a tiny bulldog trademark on the bottom of the face plate. This reel is marked "Pflueger Redifor Akron Ohio. No other of my Redifors have the word "Akron" on them. This places it in that "transition period" I had referred to in my earlier article. Now I will have to re-write all this! Bad bob

Robin Sayler · Post by **Robin Sayler** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:20 am

I don't have it handy but i thought in the pflueger pfacts book you talked about some as high as the 1400's without the bulldog either. Any guesses as to what happened? were they experimenting with markings on a bunch of reels to see what they liked and just sold them all anyways?

RAM · Post by **RAM** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:25 pm

May have been wrong about Nate's reel having the bulldog. I will call him and recheck. I note in the Redifor article that ser. no. 1489 has no bulldog so that casts doubt on what I said about Nate's reel. Don't know how I got that ser. no. as it was not my reel. Earliest version with the bulldog was the one I just mentioned with the tiny dog at the bottom of the face plate. Bad Bob

Pflueger Redifor Question

Pflueger Redifor Question

Redifor

Wow

dont get too excited!!

is it or is it not?