Wood Rod Project

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john elder
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Wood Rod Project

Post by john elder »

(I've renamed the post since it might have been misinterpreted...as about anything I type :-] )

Okay, no idea how this will end, but the midpoint looked promising enough that I thought I'd let others suffer along. Buoyed by some success and fun in turning a new Mid for an old lancewood rod for a new collector friend (hi, Jeff), I decided to pursue the quest of trying my hand at wood rodbuilding. Lancewood is nowhere to be found, except in the carcasses of dead rods...and what's the fun of doing what's known to work, eh? So, I stole the measurements from Jeff's rod and cut out some blanks from pau ferro...it's a SA hardwood that is dense and (so far) exhibits good flexibility when turned down:

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Once I had butt, mid, and tip blanks of rough proportion, I used the trick I've shown before to turn three sizes of dowels on the table saw, to serve as turning blanks:

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then, I popped them on the lathe for tapering and sanding to spec:

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Bet you thought those were for in-line skates, didn't you?...make nice supports to keep the thin stock from going ballistic as it's turned...that is really ugly!:

Soo, time passes...lots of time...sand...sand...shape...measure...sand again...and again...ok...can quit for now:

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Okay...hold my breath...let's do a test on the mid:

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so far, so good...let's try the tip (how much does a 5 lb trout weigh these days?):

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aaahhh..survived so far...now, have to get the sections trimmed, ferrules in place and make the handle...and oh, yeah...I need to learn how to wrap! ...forgot that :D
Last edited by john elder on Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
JeffK
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So I finally get to see the skunkworks

Post by JeffK »

John and fellow ORCANs
The new section for my rod is outside while its first coat of varnish dries. After wrapping the guides and trim I will post a photo of the whole rod.
For shorter rods solid wood made a lot of sense, and it didn't necessarily have to look cheap either. The Montague that needed the replacement section has a solid (if plain) nickel silver seat and handwelted, solid NS ferrules as well, all made during the era when George Varney's critical eye was at work in the Montague plant.
I like to fish vintage reels on vintage rods so I've just put a half DT5 line on a little Four Brothers Egalite fly reel to go with the rejuvenated rod. By Sunday evening of the first of July, that outfit will be catching native brook trout in a Maine pond that has never seen a stocked fish. Actually there are no fish of any other species at all. It's the same water fished by notables like Fly Rod Crosby and Theodore Gordon in the late 1800's, so it's fitting that I should go there with vintage tackle.
Nice work, John. I'm saving parts for you now.
JeffK
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Pictures at 11

Post by JeffK »

About 15mi NW of Rangeley


Fourth of July week it will still be in the high 40's at night, low 70's in the day. Records show there were flurries on July 4th, 1927.
Teal
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Post by Teal »

Jeff,

As I have just concluded 3 weeks in the northwoods, your pictures make me want to return right now. Sigh.

John, your woodworking skills are remarkable...

--Dr. Todd
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john elder
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Post by john elder »

Just beautiful, Jeff...sure look forward to the op to get back to that part of the world..and thanks for the pats, TEAL.

The saga continues:

First round of finish looks pretty good...dirty bench...pretty wood:

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okay...let's see if we can get a handle on this thing:

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Jim Wiegner
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Post by Jim Wiegner »

The Saga Continues...

John:

Another wonderful project. And by chance, will that beautiful little wood Pflueger you made last year fit the seat on this new creation?

And might next year's project be 30 yards of fly line?

Jim
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john elder
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Post by john elder »

thanks, Jim...well both the Pfls have new homes, so that's not in the cards. However, I'm thinking about building another fly reel to put on it...but this is not for looks...will be fished..so, the reel will have to have a bit more backbone than the Progress...and will likely not be entirely of wood.
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m3040c
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Post by m3040c »

Hello John,

You never cease to impress me

Regards,

Mike :shock:
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Brian F.
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Post by Brian F. »

Aren't we due for an update soon?
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john elder
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Post by john elder »

thanks, guyz...been travelling...back in the saddle...some progress on the handle:

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put in a little stain to give constrast...may do something else with handle before it's through, but kinda like the feel of the cork-like surface

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got to now figure out the keepers for the reel..let's try brass:
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john elder
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Post by john elder »

ah...a kinder, gentler posing...

Too heavy at the moment, but will work down the hardware...that's the nice thing about brass...easy to work, even without a machine shop:

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john elder
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Post by john elder »

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Post by john elder »

Well, the butt section is glued in (Titebond III) and trimmed so that I'll end up with 32 inch sections, including ferrules...should make an 8 ft rod:

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one glitch...the ferrules Jeff gifted me from a parts rod are too loose, so I'm going to see if I can manufacture some brass ferrules that will also better fit the reel seat hardware:

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Last edited by john elder on Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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john elder
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Post by john elder »

well, I think the brass ferrules came out pretty good for my first attempts at soldering brass. male ferrules were plugged with solid brass and then soldered:

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Preliminary fit onto the rod sections. I'm quickly finding a new level of respect for the rodmakers' ability to get the sections to the same size that add up to the desired length! As one who hates guidelines and instructions, it is easy to get lost in the plus one inch-minus 3/4 inch thought pattern to end up with an exact length. I had originally headed for an 8 ft. rod, but with adjustments to insure good ferrule fit and something approaching standard length, this one will be 7 ft. At the end of the day, I think I'll be happier with the shorter length...the action is great, IIDSSM

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Last edited by john elder on Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Teal
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Post by Teal »

JOhn,

I am again astounded by your skill at the bench. Really, really interesting stuff here. Just fascinating. Now we need a report on how well it casts!

You could always send it out to Phil to test on the Idaho rivers, I'm sure he could give you a full report.

--Dr. Todd
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john elder
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Post by john elder »

thanks, Todd...

Well, time for the next Moment of Truth. taped up some guides and put on a little sal-trout reel...we'll try a test drive in the AM. As Todd suggested, I'm going to have to find a couple beta testers, however, since I don't have the frame of reference to compare with other rods.

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john elder
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Post by john elder »

The Old Man and the Driveway


Five o’clock came early… around 4:30…and after the normal 5 cups of French Roast while watching a bit of The Open (Garcia still leading) and defeating a slightly pesky Thursday NY Times crossword puzzle, the intrepid woodbutcher (rodmaker?) pulled on shoes and headed outdoors for the long-awaited test of his first prototype wood rod.
After a few tentative whips in the still air, he started to lay out a bit of line. The initial efforts were pitiful, decorated with 40 years of rust since the last time he had actually worked a fly rod. But after a few casts, the feeling started to return and he hardly even felt the line fold into the back of his head as he began to get some semblance of rhythm to the action. A hawk, spying the flipping line, swooped down from a nearby tree, then thought better of it and flew off into the grey light of approaching dawn.
Eventually, the line started to lay out further and straighter…first 20 yards, then 30…then 35… before reaching the limits of the leaderless 4 wt line and the abilities of the caster. The rod…well, the rod felt marvelous in his hands! The action was not stiff, nor was the rod a “noodle”, with the characteristic action of many of the longer early wood and bamboo rods. The 7 foot length felt perfect for the anticipated trip in August to the Sierras where the Old Man would have a chance to duel a lovingly farm-fed trout in one of the many beautiful bathtubs with trees that dot the mountain landscape.
Finally, after 20 minutes of casting, the woodworker (dare he think rodmaker?) was satisfied and wound up the line on the little Pflueger Sal-Trout reel chosen with care for this maiden voyage. As an afterthought, he put the butt against his shoe and gave the beautiful rod a few ginger tugs and bends, just to assure himself that it was, indeed, a rod for the ages…...and of course, it snapped like a twig right at the male ferrule of the mid.

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Disheartened, but never defeated, the (still) woodworker pondered what it all meant. He had read somewhere that there was a reason that rodmakers stopped using wood for fly rods….could this have anything to do with it, he thought? After all, the wood in a rod was destined to exist near the breaking point by the nature of the action. With baseball bats made of Ash, a stamp was always placed on the grain face and all young players were admonished to always keep the stamp “up”, to insure making contact against the grain so the bat would not crack. But with a fly rod, the grain is what defines the action and even if set up against the grain, the rod would bend in the direction of the grain when put under load.
So what were his alternatives? He could make the rod bigger in diameter, something often done with early rods. However, that would just produce a clumsy, actionless instrument that would not perform as he wished. Or he could just make lots of extra tips and mids to keep the pole in action if more breaks occurred…again, an approach used by the early rodmakers. Lastly, he could make the rod from laminations of one or more types of wood so that, as with split bamboo, the construction would employ strength on strength to yield a stiffer, but sturdier product.
As for the prototype, the woodworker fondly returned it to his shop for gluing and wrap/repair, comforted in the knowledge that he had learned a few things and at the least, had a nice wall-hanger to grace his displays….and who knows…perhaps after repair, the rod will still be strong enough to catch that trout! The strength added at that most critical stress point in the rod may be all that’s needed.
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Brian F.
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Post by Brian F. »

:doh: ouch. Reel News entertainment :D
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Post by Jim Wiegner »

John:

I'll bet that even the master rod builders have had this experience, so don't let it get you down. The next one will be better, and the one after that better yet. You are learning as you go, and your ORCA friends are rooting for you.

And anyway, it was probably just a defective tree part!

Jim
middlemac
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Great job

Post by middlemac »

John, a really beautiful and well-thought-out project- well done. Thanks for the great photos and details! :D

The snap- as a woodworker I can only say the comments you offered are food for serious thought. Working with bent laminations in furniture (usually white Ash) through the years we looked at lots of tech data and methods balancing elasticity and strength. I couldn't count the heartbreaking fractures, fold-overs and breaks that occurred- usually a signal that it was time to go to lunch, or to the pub (Joe Bar) a block downhill from the shop in Birmingham. When we began laminating and gluing up compound curves, we began spending more time at Joe. And buying more clamps.

For tech geeks and anyone interested and not already aware, the Forest Products Laboratory has a downloadable

Wood Handbook
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif ... gtr113.htm

with Chapter Four titled:

Mechanical Properties of Wood http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif ... 3/ch04.pdf

which has a boatload of information examining wood species for things like modulus of elasticity and strength properties. The text is table-heavy, but readable and illuminating. The research species are mostly North American hardwoods but you can also contact FPL geeks about the properties of other species at

email:

Phone: 608-231-9200

I actually found them helpful answering tough questions over the years- if you catch the right person, he/she will stay on the phone a lot longer with a woodworker than with some plywood mega-wholesaler from Anywhere. As always, be persistent- we're paying their salaries.
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john elder
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Post by john elder »

Great info, Middlemac and thanks for the comments...I'll go see what's there. Generally, I try to avoid asking many questions because i keep having people tell me all the things I can't do! Sometimes they are right, but many times I've barged ahead and only found out I couldn't do it after I had already done it :D

After thinking about it for a night, I decided to take about all the options I outlined. I cut the offending region off the Mid and re-mounted the ferrule this morning. I lost some troubling grain section in the process and I think it will hold this time without further heroics...if it doesn't, nothing lost. I will go ahead and turn a back-up Mid for the exercise. the current Mid is now short by an inch, which is a major violation for rodmakers. However, I don't much care, since it will be for my use anyway.
middlemac
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Post by middlemac »

Great!

In woodworking through the years, I've used what I'd call variation on Brian's comment as to adjusting file sizes when uploading photos to the picture repository- try it, and it it doesn't work, do it over again :wink:
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Post by Teal »

John,

As always, an entertaining post, although i am saddened the rod broke I am heartened by the fact that you haven't given up! What a nifty rod--and keep in mind Betheraba, Lancewood, etc. were used for 100 years and more before Tonkin cane.

I have heard Ironwood made a good rod but have never verified this.

Keep up the great work!

Dr. Todd
http://fishinghistory.blogspot.com/
http://www.whitefishpress.com/
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john elder
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Post by john elder »

well, rod mid is repaired albeit shorter than planned. It casts well and in another week and a half, I'll find out if it will hold up. First wrap job was pretty bad, but functional and got better as I went along..think I'm getting the hang of it.

Started a working reel to go with it...not sure it will make the trip, but will try. Frame is lacewood; spool goncale alves:

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john elder
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Post by john elder »

Well, it's been awhile since I updated this thread. You remember last time, I had made a Pau Ferro rod, used it to catch a trout...and managed to break it messing around on the bank! I then went back and made a new mid by laminating two pieces together to counter any weak spots in the grain. That worked well, so I went to the next step and made a "Quad" rod, this time using ash (handle is of poplar, as before). i split an 8 ft x 1 in x 1 in piece of ash lengthwise, flipped the sections 180 degrees and glued them up. I then split lengthwise in the other dimension, flipped and glued, thus creating a 4 strip blank. I then turned it, using methods detailed above and using hardware from an old lancewood rod from JeffK, put together this 7 ft, 3 section rod:

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I turned a spare tip, but have no ferrules that match...anyone out there with a drawer full of old ferrules and/or old wood rods, take pity on me!

Time for a beta test by someone who's had enough experience with various rods to give a good critique...lawn tested beautifully, but what the hell do I know!

Next want to do one of these in Pau Ferro and finish the reel I started above...and maybe after a few more rods, the wrap job won't be an embarrassment :oops:
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